00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listening to Hunt don't meet Eater podcast, you can't predict anything presented by on X Hunt, creators of the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where you stand with on X. How's it going? Guys? All right? Everybody joined Reno, we are we ain't at the Purple pair. It has there been been to the purple parrot, ben Uh, Ben O'Brien, he thought the smoke ribs. They got a guy back there in the pack of camel lights smoke ribs. It had a taste of like nicotine to it, which I enjoyed. Let's just a bit of Ductor's real quick start down at the Eagle Honest producer of Meat Eater, Thanky Remy Warren. Just the guy they picked up off Virginia Street this morning. I like it. Ben O'Brien, the host of Hunty Collected podcast. Great Thornton, President CEO of the Wild Chief Foundation, on a work released program from sold Out in Prison, Ryan Callahan. I'm the director of Conservation and meat eater. All right, you know, uh, a long time ago on the show, I talked about getting a gun pulled on me in Nevada and a lot and I meant to tell the story, but never told the story. And then I just started saving because I thought I'd tell it here because this is uh. I had a gun kind of pulled on me, but never like really pulled on me until the very first time I came to your state. And I was doing a magazine article about a guy who goes by the name He's a denim detective. And this guy goes down into old mine shafts and mining towns and looks for old clothing, uh. And he sells vintage clothing, like you know, like jeans that have to buckle back, like the old style from there will be blow out the movie and stuff. He sells these the film designers and clothing designers. And I was doing his profile piece on this guy, and shortly before I went out with him, someone had been to a mining town here in Nevada and found a pair of Levi's that he sold to Levi Strauss for what was it, a forty six thousand two bucks Because leave like Levi's when when San Francisco burnt down, Levi's lost their library. So Levi's has closed. They know they made but they have no examples of it. And when someone can find an example of a missing thing from their library, they'll pay a lot of money for it. So we're out doing this looking for all these clothes, and we wind up where some guys had to were working these small claims, and we get to this guy's place. He's got like a trailer he's living in. He's got some dogs. There's a truck park there, and it's just a little dinky trailer. I mean, the trailer is not for me, the honest long. So I go out and bang on the door because we're gonna ask me if we could have a gander around, and no one answers the door. Some of a couple of idiots were just standing around in his yard, and pretty soon this door comes open like like hard, you know, and he and my piece I talked about. This guy had a voice like to make it like John Wayne shipped his pants. You know, it's like bamn. It comes out and just levels of shotgun at us. It turns out and he's yelling at us, and I can tell when he's yelling at he's deaf, so the whole time we're banging on his door, he didn't know it. Also looks out the window and a couple of hosiers standing out in his yard and like detains us at gunpoint, and we're just trying to scream real lit like whatever. Come back. Eventually get the car and drive and we drove two hours. I can't here what time we want to do. Drove two hours. Remember ordering a vodka tonic man, and two hours later I reached out in my hand was still shaking so much. I could barely grab that barely grab that trink. So whenever I think about this place, I think about getting the gun pulled. Yeah, my uncle tells that story a lot different. Steve. He's like, there's these two guys trying to steal my pants from the trail. We are just to return to that, to return to that, I don't want to dwell on it. But the coolest clothing eye of my fie with this guy. It was in this old cabin and someone had they had moved a woodstoves because there's like two chimneys in this old cabin and someone had to plug up one of the stove pipes. Had shoved a pair of blue jeans watted up into a stove pipe, and these are J. C. Panty, old J C. Penny blue jeans. And you picture, like with a cylinder, how much sun actually makes it down, Like in the course of the day, how often sun like shoots down a cylinder. The part of those pants that was up was bleached pure white. The rest of the pants were still dark. And when you opened the pants up, it was like a tidy shirt with that one bleach partners, a really old pair of J. C. Penny stuffed into a stove pipe. Uh, graty bear with us comfortable. Okay, we gotta run through a little like it's a thing we do like to do where I gotta run through some listener notes and feedback and whatnot. And they're gonna we're gonna have you lay and you're gonna have you set the scene for sheep show, cheap show. Um, okay. We talked not long. A guy wrote and he had an interesting word that I wanted to share. Where often times when we're talking about like ethical issues like who who all in here? Familiar with Jack O'Connor, the outdoor writer Jack O'Connor. Yeah, we call Yanni. Yanni's thirteenth nickname is Yanni O'Connor because Yanni likes the writings of Jack O'Connor. And if you read Jack O'Connor's sheep hunting stories, they tended to kind of get up on a group of sheep and everybody's just starts to shooting, and uh, they'll be like lo and behold we got six, you know, after a hundred rounds are fired. And when we're talk about this, I'm always trying to like present that at the time, right, I Am like, well, you know, at the time, what was normal. And Jack O'Connor was actually probably like sort of a progressive minded person for his his time. And we spent a lot time explaining like what things that used to happen and how we look at it now and it seems like not a great idea, but at the time maybe was. And this guy rode into propose that we start using the word present is um, meaning applying today's moral standards to bygone times. So from now on, when someone does that, I'm gonna accuse them of present m um. We got had a big talk reason had a past episode about party hunting in some station, a lot of party hunt. One dude has a tag, but other dudes can hunt the tag. And that led to talk about partying and uh, A pilot rode in to say, like, you know, I appreciate you guys take so much time to talk about gun safety in the In the aviation world, in my circle, we have a rule of thumb called twelve hour bottle to throttle rule, meaning you do not touch the throttle. If you had touched the bottle in the last twelve hours, this would make it impossible for Ronnie Beam to hunt. But it's like it's an interesting thing. I also shared a story that long ago we were talking about on the subject gun safety, that like when you check a rifle, you know, emptier full, you kind of like gander up in there, or I'll saying, I like I was fingering my rifle, right, I'll put my pinky in there. So we got a lot of guys right and in about fingering your rifle. And the guy was right said this apposude was buddy. His buddy gets himself a Marlin Lever action and he's watched TV fingering his rifle, gets his pinky stuck in the loading ram where he cannot get it out. He's trying with one hand to see if he can somehow dissemble the rifle and eventually realized that he's gonna have to go to the emergency room to extract his pinky. But he needs now he needs to walk into the emergency room with a rifle. So this dude calls the Sheriff's department to say, I'm about to call the hospital, but I'd like you to know that I'm coming in armed. So he gets down there and they send it off. They send a sheriff's officer to meet the guy at the thing, and the nurses prying him about is he's suicidal, and another person is asking him, um, if his gun is loaded, and they eventually get some lube poured down. They get some lube poured down the muzzle and he gets his finger free and he's This guy remarks that it was odd that his friend then went and traded that rifle in. Uh quickly, I gotta touch on two. We talked about to Molly's not long ago, and people were really dismayed by our lack of understanding of to Molly's and Tommy making process. It's to Molly's, like are you enough where? Like is it regional? Oh? Yeah, I make Tomali's all the time. You grew up eating Tamali's. Yeah, see like being northern tier dudes, how can we be expected to know about is there a Tomali line? Like where the Tomali's start? And stop the tradition because I was above it wherever it was. I think your corn comes down here for the Tamali's, but the Tomalies never go back. You don't send you guys, don't send Tomali's. Yeah. A lot of people are like dismayed how little we knew about tomal He's. And and a guy wrote didn't say. There's a process nix. Do you know this word nix to malization. I'm pronouncing it wrong. I'm sure nix tomalization, which is the process of soaking corn or any other grain in an alkaline solution. They used to use it the lye in wood ash to make an alkaline solution that you would soak corn in. And this is what gives you the the what's the word I'm looking for here? You don't know this, remy big tom Molly guy. I don't make my own mesa though, you know not like masa, right, Okay, So that's why it's the pro because we didn't we didn't know this that every rolled into correct, so I want to share it the correction. It's the process and then you get homily and you grind that and that gives you the masa or corn flower. And a lot of guys rolled in about the best all. Everybody has their own best way to reheat it to Molly. One guy said he was an oil guy in Texas rolled in that he started working on a crew that was all guys from Mexico and they taught him to heat up bacon grease and char that to Molly in a pan until the husk is blackened. And that is the only way to reheat it to Molly. In his estimation, you feeling it. Other guys like I put him in my microwave. Once the Tomali is hot, it's a hot to Molly. Like that's that's the goal. You get hot to Molly and you eat it tomally. It doesn't matter how it got hot. You can use that little hot pocket sleeve, you know, but then put it in there and put in the microware. But you don't want to crispy to Molly, you want to like a hot, non saggy tomor. We had a conversation now long ago about cheese kurds. But you guys don't eat down here, not very often, okay. And in the North a lot of fellas eat cheese kurds, and what people call cheese kurds is squeaky cheese. And it's like, when it's good, if a discerning Wisconsinite, we'll bite a cheese curd and get a good squeak. It squeaks on your teeth. If it doesn't squeak, that's a sign that that cheese kurd has been sitting too long. And a buddy of mine was saying that to to re squeak a cheese kurd, he likes to put it in his on his dashboard to soak up the sun and somehow this will re squeak a cheese kurd. Another buddy of mine from Wisconsin was very incredulous of this, and he's like, I don't think that was a guy from Wisconsin, because no guy from Wisconsin would let a cheese kurt sit so long that it lost squeak in the first place. The last quick uh list of feedback, I think we had a conversation about what is it about when you're eating the apple in the woods that you want to huck the apple court even though you're leaving. You're not gonna stay there. You don't eat an apple and go like this, no matter where you are, it's better if the apple core was somewhere else. Um, And I was wondering why that's the case, because we're all sitting there, we all eat apples and we go, and if you were over there, you'd throw it so that it was here when you left. And there's a guy wrote in he's got a spot where he hunts. This is another guy in Wisconsin and he's got a shooting lane. It's his favorite shooting lane, and he's got his second favorite shooting lane. And he points out that he likes to throw his core into his second favorite shoot lane because he's not sure if the smell of human would impact anything. So he says, maybe it'll help the second lane, and I know that it won't ruin the first lane. So he's like a targeted core thrower. With all that said, great, he tells about sheep show, like how many how told people? You know? I was gonna I think a better segue would have been a Tomali story. You got one, of course. So November, I'm down in Sonora, Mexico. We're gonna do a sheep release. We're gonna release twenty one desert big horn sheep from a from a high fenced area into a complete free range hundred thousand acres of free range. So you know, Mayby you'd know this. I mean, or Tomali is usually something that you would find, something that could crack a tooth in he should not. So here, I am minding my own business on the back of a truck up two Mexican friends up front. We're driving along. They said, would you like a desert big horn sheep Tomali? I mean, that's pretty special. So I get this desert big horn sheep to Molly, and I'm munching away on the tomorrow and pretty soon that sound must be a little bit of bone. It's a olive pit. And olive pit an olive pit in my Tomali long and short of it. I thought, okay, well, let's fine. I put the pit away. Pretty soon I realized I just cracked my ba and I've swallowed it. So I'm messing around on this and finally my Coregen got back into something wrong. Go, yeah, I cracked my molar on this tomorrow. Oh green olive pit, you're telling me, so now I've got I've got three or four days in Sonora with a cracked tooth. But you know, the hospitalities of the Mexican is just kind of second to none. So we have a nice dinner that night, we eat steaks, go to sleep, get up the next morning and it breakfast. They had brought me a crown that they had found out underneath the table somebody's tooth. They said, Gray, we found your tooth. I said, no, no, no, I swallowed my tooth. No, no no, this is your tooth. But anyway, that's my Tomali story. But it wasn't your tooth. It wasn't my tooth. So there are ways of fellow could go. The followed, but they followed you off into the bushes the tooth back into the sheep she So well, it's all about the desert. Big Born Sheep, which is one of the four North Americans. For Cheap is what we concentrate here with the Wild Cheap Foundation, least in North America, but we do work all over the world. But we're here at the Sheep Show. It was our forty second Sheep Foundation Convention. We we call Reno our second home. We've been here thirty six some odd times. We'll have about ten thousand people coming through the door over the next three days. You all are a part of it. Um what this is our celebration of the hunt, our celebration of conservation, our celebration of the restoration of of wild sheep, certainly in North America but now worldwide. UM bighorn sheep back in the nineteen sixties nineteen seventies worth their all time low about twenty five thousand bighorn sheep and then included desert in North America. Through the efforts of people that are out there in this audience, the Sheep Foundation, our partners in the agencies UH and then our chapters and affiliates, we've increased those numbers threefold, five thousand bighorn sheep in North America. So it's a fantastic conservation success. The Wild Chief Foundation's purposes to put and keep wild sheep on the mountain. So that's what we do. We do it by raising money and having a damn good time. I mean, what what other show can you come and listen to Steve Ronnella podcast and then go right outside and get a tattoo of either a skull or we've got some petroglyph art or even a you. So it's just just a great time, um, And you can win a sheep hunt. You can win a sheep hunt right here. Tomorrow we'll have the less than one Club reception. Callahan won the lesson one club. He sure did. He won the lesson one eye club for international. There's two people sitting up here that have won sheep hunts from this organization. Who's the other one? May Well? Actually, I'm going for my third win this year, so watch out. Yeah, Ben said he you could win a sheep show. Is going into the bathroom to take a leak? Here sheep hunt anywhere in this building. I was telling you right now. There was a guy two years ago that had gone to his room to take a leak, and he's watching the live stream and we drew his name, and you have to be present to win. No sucks to be that guy, really, So he ran down, but it was too late. He came down and he goes we drew again, I said, didn't one? Oh this guy we drew again and he goes, Damn, that was a bad move. I go, wolf, that was a bad move. So why do you go to his room take a leak? He's got like shy bladder, I think so. Um fun quick fact for everybody, big guy running around here, Ryan Thompson. Uh, he and I met on one of my first guiding gigs. Uh gotten white water and fly fishing outside Glacier National Park and he just welcome to do baby into the world and uh maybe thanks to everybody here tonight, that baby will live in the world that has more sheep than uh us, than conception than we have. Uh anything else you want to throw in? What about? What do people? Any else? People? You know? We've got you going banquet's that we kicked off last night Wednesday night grand opening. We've got a Conservation Night banquet tonight over at the pepper Mill. Uh ramble wards tomorrow morning at the pepper Mill and a Ladies ram Awards ram Awards, and we have a Ladies lunch that will be here in the Mount Rose Ballroom. Our Legacy Night, Ben You're gonna go to that, Yeah, I'll be there. You'll be a server. We got a Legacy Night banquet Steve and then our grand finale Saturday night after a life member breakfast on Saturday morning. So um, last year we directed five point six million dollars into wild sheep restoration, conservation and advocacy and we do it from what we raise here. So pretty pretty impressive deal. Can you can? You guys real quick? Like, uh, less than one is less than obvious? Keeps playing what that means? You have less than one sheep? You hunted? You hunted zero sheep? So it's kind of funny. You have. Have a guy named Justin Phillips was sitting there with some friends and I think they had a few cocktails in them, and we had just finished up one of our banquets is late night, and they're lamenting on the fact they're young guys and gals, and they thought, you know, they've got all these programs of one more for four because you needed just one more sheep to get your four. And he goes, what about the folks like us that have less than one sheep? That makes sense? You know you haven't hunted a sheep yet, or hadn't at least taken a sheep. So he came to me and he goes, hey, what about a less than one club that I like it great graphic designers, So he came up a real cool logo, Steve. That was our greatest ever membership program because the idea was, you joined that less than one club for bucks, you need to be a member of the Wild Sheep Foundation, and we'll put you into drawing for some free sheep months and get you kicked out of the club. So some of us then when we got our first ram, we'd put red uh tape over our less than one Club shirt and the big deal was you got to get kicked out. So now we celebrate the only club that you join and want to be kicked out of. Yeah, so that's the less one one club. We will be in here tomorrow in the afternoon. We'll have probably about people in here. Um you see the beer trucks on the side. Last year, twenty five kegs in two hours. No s really. So, as I said, you know, I said this from the podium last night, I think the Wild Sheep Foundations, you know, great conservation organization, but we're basically a drinking club with sheep hunting problem. And so it was cal it was last year that you and your buddy, yes, yeah. So I actually right at you know, kind of the eleventh hour, I signed up everybody, uh that I came down here with that first light and got everybody signed up paid. We all came in here, uh obviously not expecting to win anything. But you get a T shirt and you get uh mug for unlimbided to refills and so it's a good time and it's kind of fun. It's really an amazing thing to win in this situation because everybody is ecstatic for you, and uh I would I wouldn't be Oh yeah, I'd be like sulking in the corner. Randy Newberg's like, cow, when I win this thing, you're gonna come help me pack this sheep out. I'm getting a little old. And I was like, yeah, I man have no problem. That's like Ryan Callahan, huh so, and uh yeah, so I highly highly encourage folks to come in. It's twenty five bucks and um it's a really fun crowd. If nothing else, Yeah, Ryan, And you can get our membership booth right over there. You can sign up the less than One club, get a cool T shirt and that's another twenty bucks. For the beer reception, you get a nice yettie mug and uh bottomless mug. So I have a good time to see if we can break that twenty five kegs and two hour record with a crowd that we're expecting. I think we can. You can get there. I want to jump into taxidermy, freezers and sheep nuts. We'll start with tax dermy. This is a good question. That's what I had thought of when I A guy wrote in it, I'm stuttering over myself. There's the thing that I think about when I'm at my mom's house because my mom still has my late father's taxidermy hanging around the house. So I wonder, um, you know, bless my mother. She's still in the house I grew up in. But just someday, I'm like, someday, right, this tax dermy, Um, if if things go away they seem to go with human beings, Um, this tax dermy will need to go somewhere and find a home. And I've been thinking about this lately, and two guys have written in with different versions of the same thing. One was a guy that said, nearby me, they're doing in a state sale and it went to the estate sale and there's a lot of tax durmy for sale. He's like, why do I feel like such a loser to buy another man's taxidermy. He's like, is it okay to have another man's taxidermy in your home? That's a good question for me because my wife talks about how mad I get even to have another man's meat in the home, meaning like like freezer right, we're gonna understand that in my uh, Like, I don't like like if I come home and I realized that someone where my my mother in law is a town and someone like bought a chicken and I look at it like stormy, I get irritated. So for me to be like like, for me, no if it was a body of mine or something, but I couldn't, Yeah, I couldn't have another man's tax durmy hanging in my house. And part two and I'd be curious to here everybody's perspective on this Part two is a guy wrote in about the dad question, and this guy has his his dad's got all his tax dur me. He doesn't want the tax durmy. He's like, how should I dispose of it? I don't want to sell it because then it could be some other guy with my old man's tax durmy, and he's thinking about making a funeral pyre and burning the old man's tax durmy rather than it falling into someone else's hands. Any guidance that these two that you guys can share with these two individuals. There's a thing in the in the art world, or in like maybe the hipster art world, where you go to and antique shop and there's just an old taxidermy with a price tag on it and say, like thousand dollars, two thousand dollars, Yes, somebody's old buck mounth. That looks terrible, and the worst the more terrible it is, the more expensive it is. And that's very much a reality. I live in Austin, Texas. You can go downtown and get a two thousand dollar dear mount if you'd like to. That's not yours because but with that and that world, it's like there's a little bit of irony. So you want it to seem old. You might put some glitter on it something that make it look real nice. But uh, what about the old man question? If your old man's taxing, your old dad's texted me, I can see that, like you know, I can see burning it George. You know, I got uh, you know, all of us adventurers out there, you know, something something bad happens to one of us, and I end up with Janni's uh old buck Mount, and I gotta be like, oh yeah, I mean yannest is Buck. And then that's a good way to like talk about Joannice uh, you know, years after his demise, I can see something like that, like remember your buddy fondly. But it's just an odd thing because taxing or me is worth nothing, right, It's like it is worth a great, great, great amount to the person who went on that trip and had that adventure. And you get to say, like when people say oh wow, look at that, they don't mean look at that thing, and how much like did it score? It's like, oh wow, please tell me about the adventure and the story that went along with this, And that can really only be done well by the person who had that firsthand account, went out and shook hands with him. As you like to say, it's some other guys stuff. You don't even know if he was you know, he might have been some asshole. I mean, who knows, But you can turn that into a good story. That's a It's a tough one because, like for me, taxidermy, you know, it means so much to the person, whereas if you're just someone else's taxidermy, it's just like buying some home good scrap that you put up on the wall. Um, you know. Now, Like if it's your dad, you would think there's probably at some point where you went on a hunt and like that. You know, just because you didn't kill it doesn't mean that doesn't mean something to you. But if he's just like, oh, he shot all this stuff and I don't want it at all, then why does he even have a problem with somebody else having it? See what I'm saying, Like he cares so little about the experience there that, but he cares if someone else has it. That doesn't make any sense. Why not just get rid of it in that way, sell it and then take that money and go on your own hunt and put something else on your wall. Yeah. Yeah, as long as whoever buys it and then owns it, you know, can apply their own value to it, then who cares? You know? And I think that I was just thinking about it from the perspective of the taxidervist. When they make it, they don't even really a ship probably about your story. I mean, they use thousands of them a year right there. It's like a that's their life's work and it's art. Taxidermy is art, right, and so he'd probably rather have it just sit on any wall as long as people can appreciate like the job well done versus you're thrown in a pile and burning it because you don't want it in someone else's hands. Yeah, there's a drama about burning it. But my old man has such a peculiar taste, Like he has the first fawn you ever killed with his bowl, like a six month old dear. He got that mounted, he got a he got a wild pigs as mounted and another pig head monitor and he keeps him like he kept them like separate. So the wall is, you know, like on one side of the wall, like there's that and there's side the wall. There's the head burn it. That's I can I I got a like a kind of funny story that is actually going to divulge something that I've been keeping a secret for a very long time. That refers to taxi to me, and my brother's actually here, so he's gonna hear it for the first time, but this just reminded me. Right, So, like quite a few years ago, we're sitting, like when I was his roommate, We're sitting in the kitchen and his now wife who's his girlfriend at the time. We're talking about home decorations, right, and she you know like sometimes, like a lot of people in relationships have like a butting heads of when it comes to hanging some antlers or a mount or whatever. I'm sure some people understand what I'm talking about. I have not had to live with that, but I know that it happens. Right. So we are having this conversation and his now wife is like, no, that is you know, a lot of these are gonna go to the garage. And I was like, yeah, but they meet like that is a decoration in the house that means something that you can't go by to store, like a shitty home good sign that says something that you read once and never read again. She's like, no, I read my signs and I read them all the time. Right. You know, we drink wine in this house, and when the wine's gone, we drink more wine. Kind of right. So to prove a point, about four years ago, I got this great idea. I took a sign right by their front door that said, what did you say, Um, I'm a nurse. I'm here to save your ass, not kissed it. Right, So, that day, four years ago, I took that, I scanned it into like computer. I used Photoshop to rearrange the letters and say I'm a nurse. I'm here to wipe your ass, not kiss it. Then I glued that over the front and stuck the sign back. Four years later, the sign is still there. But had somebody messed with the antlers, I would know immediately. Yeah, all of a sudden, it was like a forkey buck hangover. You had a nice big buck, you know, you know, it's like it means something. You look at it every day, and every day you think of those memories. But every day you look at the stuff you got at the home good store, you don't have that same connection. And now, I mean, okay, I would want to see how long it went, but I feel like four years is enough and I can find you gotta spring the track at some point. Man, Here's here's another good one. Here's another good one. It's like kind of taxidermy uh dude in Pennsylvania, him and his brother in law track and a bear in the snow, and they kicked the bear are up. The brother in law spots the bear running downhill and they both take a crack at it. Bear falls over dead. They skin it. There's like one hole in that bear. They split the meat and shared the meat, and they're trying to solve out whose bear hide. The brother in law like it has to be without knowing the guy that spotted it will be my opinion, Yeah, I mean, how else they gonna buy it up? They and then there's no ball. One hole, two shots, two guys bear, someone's like as a bear and they both shoot. Bam. Bear falls over dead. They go down skin it. One shot had hit it. Now this guy that rolled in's got all these theories, but why he thinks it was him. He feels that he is the guy that got it. But the only solution is they got to move in together and put the bear in the house and the bear in the middle of the house without like my with without knowing other things like what I'd be like, whose spot was it? Who found the track? Perhaps? But no one what I know? I would say, the guy that saw it, it's his bear hide. I was saying like the meat eater Supreme Court, whoever punched that tag first? Because that guy is like so comfut, He's like, oh bed dead bear, that was me. He's got it because somebody had to tag that bear. How would they decide to tag the bear? I didn't ask me that question. It's a good point because if you in the moment, like if you're talking about it three years later, in that moment, you kind of knew maybe it was the other day, why don't you put your tag on it? Or he had the person who didn't put their tag on it had this theory like, well, I won't tag it because I get to go out bear hunting again. And he's just pissed that he didn't get another one awards. Like it's like game warden would want to know whose tag was on it. That might be better. Yeah, I like that one better than the whoth spotted it. Yeah, yeah, confidence. Yeah, just just brought back the memories of a moose hunt. And I was with a guy that I had met elk hunting in Colorado. Were up in Alaska, were moose hunting with a couple of other buddies, and we had two guys with cariboo k tags. Two guys with moose tag. I was one of them, and I was hunting with this guy from Arkansas and I saw this incredible cariboo bull. Yeah, look at him. And I'm the one that spotted. So it's kind of kind of in that line of of yours. I spotted at first, and I said, you know what, Junior, his name Arkansas. Junior. I think I'm gonna shoot that cariboo and put my moose tag on the cariboo, which you can in in Alaska anything lesser than the price of your your tag, as we know. And he's okay, and so I'm lining up on this cariboo. We had kind of a downward shot and I shot a little high. I hit it, but shot high. Now where I come from, I mean, you shoot an animal, you're gonna want to put another one in it quickly. Well, this cariboo kind of ran a little bit to the right, and unbeknownst to me, Junior is there with a three and Ah's just laying down lead and I looked, but pretty soon he's going I got it. I got it, I got it. So here was a deal I spotted at first. I shot it. He shot it. I still wanted to hunt moose, so he tagged, No, it all worked. I didn't get a moose. Now, you don't come around asking for your cariber antler though. No. Uh okay, freezers, I mean this is a big reason why I do not. There's no like my rifle very seldom comes off my shoulder until everybody else is long since out of the game. Now, our situation in Mexico this year was very different for me because that I mean, it's just so rare for me to ever like jump in there and be wanting to pull the trigger before everybody else is out of there. Our situation was a little bit different. But yeah, you're like the leaders eat last. There's a great set of examples here to maybe be like missed. So you miss Let's go keep going, keep things clearly defined. Yeah, you're good. You know you're feeling okay. Uh freezers, guy rode in. He says, I see how real I don't know what this means. Real hunters all seem to have a freezer. He wants to know if you're running, he wants stand up or chest up. Yeah, I've seen a lot of guys spend a lot of time chess freezers, taken everything out, finding some squirrel from a decade ago, laying down in there somewhere, putting everything back in. That's my pro chest freeze. Her argument that I might find something like, oh, there's a squirrel I didn't even know I had that. It's like a little grab bag. Guys with chess freezers always are eating the newest thing. Yeah, is there something wrong with that? I'm approachest freezer. It's my school of freezer management. Is I derivate from this a little bit, but generally I feel that it's first in. What am I trying to say? Trying to say first in, last out? First, I'm a chest freezer. I'm very confused. Yeah, I want to put it a cool I want to put in the cool way like first and last out. But I don't know if that makes sense, meaning eat the old stuff, right and chest freezer dudes always are eating new stuff. Yeah, but see here here's the here's my my like what I do. And yeah, the the chess freezer does suck, but they're cheaper than the stand up freezers. So you can buy two or three chest freezers for the price upright freezer, and then you go old freezer, new freezer, new freezer, and you start eating from this freezer and work your way till the older and then it just keeps ready. And then once the new once the old freezer is empty, that is now the new freezer, and you move on to middle freezer. That's exciting. Like tell your wife, like, we're on freezer to freezer to freezer number two, go to the left. Uh yeah, I run. Uh, I'm like really committed to stand up. I just like to open it. There does stuff ever like slide out though, like bad, bad, hurt yourself. It's like it's risky. It's risky because your kids a monkey with it. The doors can right, Gravity's not working for you. Half the trying to close it, close it. I said, it's the gravity does work for me. You could open that door and move your hand. Well, you know there's another reason freezers failed. Yep. Well, if it fails and it's upright a little easier to get the stuff out. I don't know if you all have ever had a chest fez or fail, but I have saw in Arizona. But there's so much it was blood and guts and gold. Chest freezers don't fail. I just realized I got to meet in your house. You got Yeah, you got meet in my up right? What I do at my up right? I haven't installed it onim. I just had to get a new one. Is I bought one of those little rinky dink little alarms. You get them to send a message to your phone. I haven't gone that far, but there's an alarm the raises, Holy hell when that temperature drops below a certain town. So above sorry you know well you'll know well you actually said that when it drops below two. But I haven't gotten around to that. But above a certain tempt, it starts beeping as long as you alert people in your house. If you hear that noise, check on it. Um. But yeah, man, I opened it up. It's just it's like beautiful. And when I opened a guy's chest freezer, I just don't get it. It doesn't move me. There's a mystery there. There's a mystery that chest freezer. You don't know what I look. I'm like, there's some freezer burns stuff in the bottom of that freezer. Man, I guarantee it. I'm still eating at all, still eating it. I'm a chest freezer guy. Yeah, And I got a bunch of reusable grocery bags and all like you know, like half antelope goes in like an old Lulu lemon bag that I have and half you know, and you can kind of as long as nobody else's monkeying with it. You gotta system in there. Well, I sold this from Jim Harrison. He would keep a inventory. I quit doing it and let's just start back up. He would keep a freezer inventory on there and you would check items out, you know, like you do like hash marks like one five five hash marks for burger or whatever, and you pull a pack of burger out, you account for it, and everything was accounted for on there. But then it requires people in your household to be as O c D as you are, because the whole system falls apart in the minute you have a family. But as a single guy, it feels really good to have that list of what's going on in the freezer. Yeah, I was gonna say that only works with no kids' running around. Yeah it's bad sheep nuts. Now there is. In my mind, there's no uh set as impressive as a big horn you think about. You think that, Yeah, well it only because I've been I've had the good Forces showing a lot of people some of the first sheep they've looked at, and you know, you just can wait for it, like you just wait for it, and man, they're like, my goodness. I'm like, I know, I wasn't gonna bring it up, but yeah, it's like really something, that's really something. Um but a guy wrote in about he got he killed a desert big one, unna catch what st He's like wondering, like, what's up a rocky mountain oysters on sheet? You know, And I wanted to point out them that that the we're at a at the b h A Rendezvous and the team that won the Wild Game cook Off their signature dish was a poached desert big horn testicle. Do you do you guys? What are you? Have you been experiments with wild game oysters? Yeah? Uh, you know elk and the red not not great. It's got a little bit of Copenhagen and take a type of tass to it. Really yeah really, but you know, once you're I'm also like, I can't cook something and then throw it away ever, So you know it's a big lesson lingers so to speak. Uh, because once yeah, once you're committed you're committed um. And they don't seem that big in comparison to a big horned sheep, But when they taste like hot Copenhagen there in your frying pan, they leave a big impression. When people are eating them off cattle. They're young, yes, but then you're eating some seven eight year old testicle, potentially eating big game testicles. Yep. That is like flowing testosterone at that time. It's the real deal, man, Yep. Yeah. But you know, like, can I return to something. It's hard to use the word poached when you're talking about because when you said poach, I thought maybe the sheep was poached, not the nuts. Well, no, it wasn't a poached. It wasn't an illegally taken sheep. Like a cooking poaching, cooking the way like the way I've had them best. And we started out doing this with antelope. We'd call him hot buttered buck nuts, and we would take them out and have a ton of butter and put them in the um and put them in a pan and like ladle and so they're cooking in butter, but you're ladling hot butter over them and in the end, dressed with some Frank's red hot in there. Slice it thin, and it tastes like octopus. If if an octopus had stacks with bacon is what it winds up. That's what I feel like. The slices that the testicle slices wind up tasting like that would be my recommendation to someone who was dealing with desert big horn. But I would say to slice it very thin, because it's like a small oyster is great, right, and a gigantic oyster is not so great. I mean oysters like the shellfish. And I think that when you're when you're get into testical preparation, a little taste, a little experience is better than a big experience. I find, Okay, I usually edge my food of where it's been and so I'm yeah, but i'd kind of leave the the you know, the the bow and the stern alone. So maybe not the brains, maybe not the testicles. Yeah, I can see that that's reasonable, but you gotta try, right, curiosity is same testicle. You taste it and uh at the BH thing, it was the best dish made there. But I have uh like in a version, I've never cooked them myself because one of my brothers shot a desert big horn. I was like, Oh, I'm gonna try to cook the nuts and then I put them in a little baggy and in my pack, and then I'm like, we unload all the meat, you know, the yahda. It'd make two trips to pack them out. And I'm and I'm hunting, and I'm like, god, I must get my pack just smells like shit, you know. And it's maybe three months later and I'm like, what there. I forgot that they were in there, and that was That just ruined it for me. On that same line, I used to when I shoot teal, you know, sitting in the duck blind, get a teal and sit there and just pluck them out and dump them in my pocket. Well, next season comes around, I still got a teal in my pocket. Check your pockets, check your pack, whytch your nuts, and check your pockets. Um. I had to argue with my brother about what I was trying to tell him that the tarsl gland on a deer that if you get that, you know, they'll they'll urinate down their leg and it goes over and passed over. That oil. It's like a oil that that gland produces and that's what they like to put on the ground to leave their little calling card. And I was telling that a lot of gaminess comes from people getting that oil all over the meat, which he was very resistant to this idea that that's what's doing it. And he's like, I think that tastes different, Like that tastes different than what people think they taste and they say that like mule deer or whatever or gaming. So he started carrying one of those around in a ziplock bag. He like, cut that patch of hide off one it would carry it the ziplock. It would want people to have a piece of meat and taste it, and then he want them to dab it on this thing that he had in this bag in order to demonstrate his point about what caused his gaming meat. Okay, moving on, use you hunts, what like, what's the sheep foundations? Take on you hunts, you know, Steve, we look at how few sheep there are out there, and there's certainly opportunities to move them. But but frankly, in many jurisdictions were running out of safe places to put wild sheep um. Either they'll come in contact with domestic sheep and goat and get disease, and I so there there are certain management situations where harvesting and you just makes good sense. So you're you're you're putting it that um, you're putting the luxury not there, the opportunities not there to take whatever you've determined to be an excess number and established new herds, and so you just left with what might be regarded as like excess sheep. Right And you know, we've got a situation in Montana and then I think we're gonna break the loggerhead. But we've had a situation in Montana that we just haven't been doing full on trapping transplants because they're just not safe places to put them. We've been doing little little transplants where Madison Valley will take some sheep from one area, will bring them thirty miles or so away and try to keep them staying in that area. About a third of them go back. But in a case like Montana, it would make sense if you've got a large population in a in a confined area, um take a few years out. Wyoming does the same thing. So it just it depends on the jurisdiction. But we are supportive of youth hunts or youth hunts, you hunts um if if the wildlife professionals feel that's the best best management scheme for their uh, their state or their province. Yeah, because a guy that a list had written in about it, and he was looking at that you could have like a really in some places, there's pretty good you have pretty good odds of drawing a U tag. But he felt like he couldn't tell if he should feel funny about doing it, like it just seems like a great way to go have the experience. Um, but why He's like, I just feel like there's so much emphasis on rams and he didn't know like morally or ethically, I mean the ethics question on that is like I feel like nonexistently, of course it's fine. Which is I think that one of the arguments against it be like, well, why don't you do it? I think in a lot of states, if you draw the you if you've been accumulating points to hope you draw a tag for a RAM UM, I think typically you'd lose your points. Oh you don't need to technically not on the U hunts is there right and there and they want to incentivise you to to get them, So just again depends is on the jurisdiction. But as an organization, you guys, are we support it if the wildlife professionals are saying that's the best management scheme for that state, province or tribal area. Yeah, what uh we all know that with um. When people talk about too many elk, too mey deer, we're typically talking about agricultural damage. What constitutes too many sheep? Like, what is the measure of too many sheep? The habitat first and foremost? But as our vice president of Conservation and Operations Kevin Hurley's thirty year biologists with Wyoming Game and Fish now now with us beending with us eight years, you know it's funny you look at you look at wild sheep, and they live in the toughest, most remote often um you know, God loving but also God awful places. But as Kevin says, and in particular with big horns, are born looking for a place to die. Um, for whatever reason. You know, this tough, tough animal that carves out a living on top of the mountaintops often is so prone to respiratory disease, and so the fear can be if you get too densely populated look at feed lots. Um. You know, you get too densely populated area, if you get a disease outbreak in that situation, you might wipe out the whole herd. So again, the wildlife professionals know the carrying capacity of the area. UM. I don't think there's a a a set answer of you know, we want a population of three hundred in this spot, two in that spot. But agencies do have population goals and if they're if they're too high, they'll they'll author its youth hunts. Yeah, hunt hunts now with uh, I've heard a guy talk about you know, I was really recently where guy was talking about c w D where there's this argument was there's this conversation around c w D where some people are point, I know, it's not a cheap issue, but while they fishing, where some people are saying that to eliminate baiting being able to bait deer in certain places because it brings deer into close proximity and nail potentially coming too close contact and rub noses and stuff and transmit. But then I was reading this rebuttal to the idea, someone arguing that it would just go watch dear if you just watch, dear, They're always up to each other, touching noses. They go up to licking branches and lick the same branch. Like you can't stop, dear, you can't stop this animal from coming up against each other. So with when it comes to sheep, like when it comes to sort of like controlling disease spread and sheep, isn't it just like regardless of density, it's just the fact that they're natural gregarious behavior means that there's two they're gonna find each other. Yeah, and we have that problem with their good gregarious to their cousins as well. So a bighorn sheep could be very interested in a little group of domestic sheep down the mountain. You know, there's some pretty cute domestic sheep down there. Yeah, So you know, all seriousness that that is a problem you've got. You've got a roaming big horn, whether it's a ram or you comes into contact with domestic sheep. Uh, it may pick up a pathogen and bring it back to the wild sheep. So there's a debate going on on connectivity. You know, connectivity sounds like it's a real good thing. You've got genetic diversity, but in some areas. Uh, connectivity is a bad thing. Where you may have an isolated population over here that's healthy. You may have another isolated population over here that's less healthy, has more bugs in it, and on and on and in the past, we started figuring where we want connectivity, so we would connect the dots and we would transplant sheep and fill in those holes. Well, now what have you just done. You've now taken a less healthy population and connected it to the healthiest population down the line. So it's uh, there's benefit and burden to it. Yeah, like picture. Uh you guys ever deal with chafing. Chafing usually when it's real hot, we're talking about that chafing. And I wrote in criticizing that he just started hunting recently, and he criticizing hunters for being too quiet about chafing. HM, like they don't want to take on the hard subjects. Really, I don't feel like I'm being quiet about chasing baby wipes or I mean, that's God's gift to sheep hunting. I think that took Yeah, who's all dealt with this? I feel some relief and I'm finally able to talk about it and open for It's a real thing. Man. I deal with it at trade shows. Ideal will. You're walking around these trades, you get chased in trade every once in a while. That's a little too much information. Then I thought it was we were in the nest and the trust tree, or we not have any of you ever cut off your underwear? Oh yeah, I'm too open. Somebody else has to go not prone to it. I've never had it. I think if you have really skinny legs, I think you're like immune. It's like it's a thing, you know. I've had chafing real Yeah, it was really hot. Yep, chafing um, and I've found it. I don't live in fear chafing because it's you know, I think you got to give it a definition here. Well, okay, I'll talk a little bit about it, but I think there's probably some folks out there they don't know what you're talking about. Well, I think there's different kinds of chafing. So our friend uh Rourke, who we've had on the show, he used to run the Buds program for the Navy Seals, and he's he doesn't like to entertain anyone talking about chafing until the experience of that chafing, which is that you're either running or rolling in beach sand. And he's like, that's chafed into a whole new level. I think that. But in my mind, there's frontal chafing, which can occur at the top of one's size, and there's like a rear chafing which can occur around the areas of the gluteal crease. I've never experienced the former. I've experienced the ladder a couple of times and I solved it. But who else, Come on, I've never heard you talk about getting chafed. Yeah. I carry out baby wipees just like Gray, and you know, every few days freshen up, and that seems to take care of him. Just keep them cleaning. The benefactors though, of other people's chafing. Hear me out, we're in the brakes when definition how are you going on? I'm following. We're hunting buck and it was the brakes can be hot in September and we had done a big, giant, big tour and we got back and like I was in camp like somehow just you know, sometimes in the in the the end of the day, you just you don't want to talk, and so the faster person just moves out of head. You get back to camp, like thirty minutes later, my bunny Tony rolls in. I'm like, dude, what funny. Yeah, He's like, yeah, bro, I got two problems, you know, problems. And then after he gets cleaned off and we found whatever he needed to help himself out, he's like, I don't think I can go out tomorrow. Well, the thing was, we had gotten onto a big bull that day, so I was like, that's too bad. I'm gonna have to go back out and and so yeah, I got to go hunt this big bull by myself because Tony was back in camp with a serious case to shave, Like, he was like, such bad chap as walk home. Now, you gotta gets bring some gold bomb medicated powder. You're up on the mountain. You know, I've used uh lip bomb to cure to keep to give you that just a little bit of buffer, got to throw it away. A question Steve on that one, dude. It's not a direct apple. We have like a left pocket lip bomb and a right pocket lip bomb. And make sure that you know you don't kind of get confused there. It's a great question. If you're laughing about this the other day, where um, it's a way that if you don't like to share your chapstick, you just talk about how that this is a thing one can do and you'll find the requests. I figured they'd dry up. No one ever comes around asking for your chapstick. Now, can you predict chafing? No, because, like I said, I want to be clear, I've had I've had it like maybe three times, but it's a vicious feeling. All three have been hunting, all three have been hunting hot hot weather, and it's all been the kind of chafing that would be called chap ass monkey button. Yes. And it's like I just wanted to bring it up because the guy was trying to like people when people hunting is intimidating to people who didn't grow up around it, and you come in and it's like the tag, then that's confusing, and it's like what gun do you buy? And ask confusing and your ass is chapped and asking refusing, And so I wanted to, like, as a gesture towards emerging hunters, I wanted to just bring this up and have like a like a form about it. Tell him he's not alone. My brother suffers from it horribly. My bigger brother suffers from it horribly. The smaller size brother does not. So I think it is it's not. It's not genetic. It's linked to girth to like big dudes seem to get chapped. You're feeling this, Yeah, we're here to share uh every good on app It's relief. I feel relief. How does one dispatch a squirrel? So you guy was more about this shoes a squirrel with jatgun. Squirrel falls down, but it's not dead. This causes him a lot of distress. I'm not a big squirrel hunter, but I'd say i'd do the same to rabbits and fish. Knock on the head, knock on the head with another tool or like that. Either one wouldn't matter. Yeah, very quickly, um very quickly against the tree like a good swing, or against the butt butt of the shotgun or buddy or twenty two unloaded with a barrel, plant away safe massle control. But it's a nice clean like I don't want to sell him a cop. It's like a guy wanting to do the right thing right. I'm trying to help share the information with a nice clean you know, for you folks listening from home. I'm I'm taking my hand and going with it. And I think that works well. Yeah, I think stretching their neck, you know, just grabbing the head and maybe the hind legs with his shoulders and just stripes their neck, you know, an inch or two. That seems to work pretty good to separate the vertebro yea works good for rabbits. I was in a pool one time and I'm with a bunch of I'm with my wife's some of her friends, all of our kids are in the pool, and a rabid I assume he's a crazy squirrel, an insane squirrel comes up to the edge of the pool and starts running up and down the edge of the pool, jumps into the pool with us, and starts chasing people, swimming, chasing kids every which way around the pool. And I did a similar, a similar, the same kind of grab by the tail and did kind of a double and sailed him back out of the pool in such a way that will prove fatal for the squirrel, like just a sharp gone. He didn't come back, No, we found him. He was dead. Yeah, it was like that kind of that kind of speed. Um, this is what I wanted to want to bring up for a while, and I think this is good. This is good for sheep hunter to learn about or to have a good open discussion about this. It's but we've come to all talking into talking someone into and the guy that wrote in he calls it how to talk on to something. Meaning you're sitting there hunting and you see something very far away and it's hard to see and your body's like, well, where is it? And then you get that sinking feeling of like, oh no, what's the best way to talk someone one? Is it into her? Onto? We say into, how do you talk someone into her? Onto? What's your best method? I'm gonna tell what his method is after I hear what you guys feel the best method? I know what I believe, I know what he believes. Oh okay, I do this a lot. This is part of the guide job. Like you see something and first off, you if because like you can hunt with different people. There's certain people that you go, oh it's over there, and they pick it up right away. Right those people you can tell them where you see other things, some things you just have to like. And then there's people that no matter how will you explain things. They just never get it. So you don't have to divulge everything you spot to them like I've found figured that out, you know, just the important stuff and until you're like you want them to see something is specifically. But what I do is I you always pick one defining landmark and start from there, and then you like build a breadcrumb trail to what you're talking about. You know, something very defined, like this table right in front of us. Now see the direction that the pen is pointing on that table all right now? Three rows back from that and to to you know what I mean, Like you build off of you build one thing that's impossible to miss, but not saying that thing right there that you can't miss, like you have to describe it exactly. Once they've got that, then you can go off that and work your way towards what anything. Yeah, Like you start with a like something that's in felt like everyone would agree on correct, like the yellow school bus, yes, but not like the green tree on the hillside yards away. You have to start something very very specific, the highest peak on the skyline where two ridges meet, like things that cannot be changed, and then you work from there. That's the dead giveaway of someone that doesn't have their talking into UH program dialed in. As soon as I hear green tree, I'm like, okay, who's next. There's the green tree over the rocky area, that bushy area. Then I'm like, oh man, this is gonna be I'm just gonna go look for something different. But another thing is, like I liked when I'm going out with people, I like to queue them in on what plants or what because it's way easier to be like, it's the only juniper on that hill, and if they understand what a juniper is, they're ahead of the game. But if every tree is the same tree to them, then a lot of times so if you know the different plants, and you can you know, along the way you learn what plants are what, then you can say, okay, it's next to that Mormon ture, you're a federal bush to the right of that, like that other bush. Because there's a lot of different plants that might be a little more sparse or thick patches of different types of plants. They're just knowing what you're looking at makes a huge difference. Yeah, glossary of terms like that, like that is a saddle you see that little place over there that you know, that's what I call a peak. My my buddys are My buddy John did a good job of that. Like the first time we went and hunted Mexico, we all just sat down, was like, this is an ocatillo, this is in agave, this is this, this is a century plant, because those are the plants that you're gonna be using, and it might not be something that you're familiar with. Once everybody knows what you're talking about, makes it way easier to point something out that spiky thing over there. When you're doing you're talking into you always have to end every sentence with a question so you can get an answer too. You see that century bush over there, because you can't there's a century bush over there. You want to evoke a reaction, Yes I do. Century plants and Yucka's have a way of making their way into a lot of talking into is what I've I'm gonna get to what this guy proposed. I think it might be revolutionary, but uh what I the way we've kind of developed as we do a lot of that works. We're always trying to explain two camera guys where stuff is and then they have the extra hard job of trying to find things on a little screen, like a little LCD screen, which is really difficult to do. But we start with the undeniable thing, and it could be that you're looking at something over there. If the only obvious thing is over here, I'll still that's extreme. But like, start with the thing that you know, and then we do the center of the clock. So the thing that we identify, we always make that is the center of the clock. And then you bread crumb them in. But every bread crumb becomes the new clock center across here. Yeah, like across it, you know, Steve. I think it's good also to practice before you're out. I love to mentor youth. I love to um, you know, mentor new hunters, and you know, before you even out in the field and you got to dial them in, do some practice rounds. Yeah, wells, whatever technique you you have. But but do that before it's game time. We can deal with audience members. Right now. We could see that guy from him go to twelve o'clock. There's another guy right here. I got another thing that I do that I just feel kind of like sometimes when you're guiding and you get a person that just does not understand like you you guide him in real Well, I just now what I do is, I'm like, okay, I know what I'm dealing with. Pull out my phone, I take a picture, I circle the area, hand him the phone and keep glassing. He's like, click a circle here and then and then you get back to work. You just keep glassing. That's yeah, that's solid man. Uh. If you flip the screen, there's a game there too, with the center of the clock. The center of the clock deal. I was trying to explain it to my six year old did our day. I was trying to talk her into talk her into a deer up on the hill on our We're looking out our window, eating, getting ready dinner, and I'm telling her and she looks at me and she says, I don't know how to tell time. I that's a good point, Rosemary. And then we'll go and find out nobody going about this. The guy proposes this, and I feel like this is really gonna change stuff if he you know, like the trick of when the sun is gonna set, you're trying to figure out how much time you got for the sun hits the mountain. There's like it's what a finger per fifteen minutes as a rule, film they do him and his bodies do okay, Like you're like, okay, well let's agree. Like you see that rocky outcrop. Okay, now drop down from there, stretched out arm, bent fingers and they do finger counts, layer index, finger um the rocky outcrop and then drop down three fingers and what's there. I feel like that would be really helpful. But it's only gonna work when you look with the naked eye, because as soon as you started doing it through binoculars you can't. But it tells him where to look, Like I'm saying, with the naked eye in the early stages of talking one into something, it'll work. Can you imagine how many people think this is the stupidest conversation. It's like a really big deal though, Man, I think we should go back to chaffing. Oh do we put chafe in the rest? Yeah, chaffing happens. Man, I got him. Yeah, I wanna jump into literature real quick. Everybody like every name, like what's the best book? Like if you got to tell people like people that are like wanting to learn about hunting and they wanted to experiment. Honey, they can't do the best. But if you could be like, man, if you're gonna read one book, make it this book. Imagining from an audience that someone who's interested in or developing an interest, and and think of it like in a big way where you're really giving them a sort of gift, a sort of framework to begin entering the world. I think got it. First, the better be a sheep one. Well, it's interesting. I was into Africa before I was into sheep, and so you know, I could pick. I had the hunter, you know some of some of Robert Rourke's works, and it wasn't so much the species, it was just how he wrote about the landscape and it just inspired me to be there. So, you know, I guess I would. I would look at it from a standpoint of of what's you know, what's going to bring out the essence of hunting in you may not be the critters. It might just be the sights, of sounds, of smells, the whole nine yards. I think it. I think it just depends on where you want to go. There's some unbelievable books on sheep hunting. We're throwing out there. We want concrete action, stuff would look at, I would look at Bob Anderson's Great Rams series is one of them that they're inspiring, you know, great photography, and and Bob's wit and his way to caption photographs is his second to none and a gratuitous plug. He's gonna be at the sheep Show signing his latest book. It's interesting to use the word inspiring. It's a really inspiring book. I mean, it's like a coffee table book. It is. But it makes you, dude, it makes you want to get out of the mountains so bad. That book you want to hunt cheap doesn't turn the off, turns you on. Some books do the opposite, you know, it's too hard of a reagion, it doesn't. But that book's fun. No, everybody's gotta go. Everybody gets chapped. Turkey seasons coming up. Colonel Tom Kelly's tent Legion is like they call that man the poet lored of turkey hunting, and for good reason. That book is the way he describes a turkey just you know, this is a raptor just walking in. He's calling it in. It's very common hunting happenstance that this happens to all turkey hunters all the time. But the way he describes that every interesting, like all the intricate things that are happening through the lens of this man's eyes. Is it changed the way I looked at turkey hunting. It's a great one. I don't know if it's fair to say, like the it sells a little short to say it's the best turkey book, because there aren't any turkey books. Yeah, I mean it's really the only It's like, I feel like it's it belongs to kind of in the canon the hunting cannon. Yeah. Yeah, if you put it along with like just the description of talking to an animal, calling an animal to you, having that conversation. His description of that conversation is it could be a turkey and elk. Whatever, doesn't matter. That the way that he describes it to me is the best out there. He's a considerate writer, too, because right away you're like, why in the hell would this book becalled the Tenth Legion, And he explains it so quickly that you don't need to spend the whole time wondering why it's called the Tenth Legion, So don't worry about that. It's called the tent legion. It has nothing. Yeah, Cal for the first bunch of years, I knew you you had a book about Ireland in your truck Trinity, but that's not your pick, right, Yeah. I mean that definitely teaches you have thing or two, but probably not about taters and whiskey. Oppression, uh, which is a good thing to know if you like to if you really want to get into hunting. There there's some oppressive times for sure. Um. So I think Jack London short stories, Uh. He does a good job of stringing together like miserable, severe conditions with um kind of the string of like you know, humanity. Uh. Also Robert W. Servius does the same thing in his poems, where it's like things are terrible, you're gonna lose some fingers and parts of parts of you. But um, it's kind of like this is what life's about, um, so find a way to come through on the other side type of stuff. And then I really like Fawkner's The Big Woods because it it's a little bit it was hard for me to get into it, but I've probably read the thing like fifteen times at this point, um, and it's it kind of goes through this multigenerational hunting camp, and it kind of hits the different characters that you will um come in contact with through a life of hunting, Like the folks that never really leave camp. They're more there to tend the fire and tell stories and um. And then there's the folks that kind of slip away and they're doing the real hunting pretty much for everybody in camp, and kind of gives you an insight into a big group kind of classic hunting characters. And I wouldn't consider any of these like real hunting books, but good educational books if you want to end up spend a lot a lot of time outside Yane Mm hmm. Does it say Yannis on here? You spelled it Yannis? Makes it Yannis? Oh yeah, Janice has gotten so broke down by people mispronouncing his name. He actually spelled it phonetically. Today. I'm just saving everybody times so we can talk about she punt instead. I got a bunch of recommendations. You make me pick one, yeah, man, one, A couple of quick and why obviously you can. There's a bunch that you've written that I think would be beneficial to any new new hunter. My favorite still a Scavengers Guide, even though it's not like a real hunting book. But it's just like against It's like kind of what Grace said, It kind of just gets you in the spirit of going and checking down stuff and going on an adventure, you know. Um. But and again to what Greg was saying, Robert Ruark, you mentioned him, right, the Old Man and the Boy, great book some hunting in their life stories. But you don't feel like you're reading it how to on hunting. Um. But you can learn a lot from reading that book about hunting safety, uh, generic stuff. Um. And uh, I'll leave at that. Okay, Well, I gotta I guess is the question about just a book that would interest someone in hunting or like someone that wants to learn about hunting because I have you know, I mean that's very different. Uh. Just yeah, it could be like something that wants to being impact like being impactful. Okay, Well this was not a how to manual, right? Okay? Then then the term you used at the beginning, like you can't apply today's standards to something of the past. Present is m No present is um allowed in my book recommendation? Um. But as a kid, I probably read this book more than any other book. Like every book report I did was on Death in the Long Grass. But you got good grades doing that, you know, I got so good at using the same book that. Yes, now it's like in today's standard, it's not a politically correct book because he's hunting all kinds of dangerous game in Africa and other things. But the first chapter in that book is it racist or raist? But like killing lions, elephants, you know what I mean, like things that hit rhinos, hippos, everything, um, But like the first uh portion of that book is possibly the best description of why people hunt that I've ever read. Um. It talks about like you know, being a part of our culture and like how humans have evolved as hunters over thousands of years and how you go to these remote places and that's never changed yet society sees things completely different even though that that's not how the world works. And um, I just think it's like one of the best descriptions of being a hunter. Like he's just so good with words that UM I would always refer to that like back before there was internet and other things of like a justification for hunting. He does a really good job at laying that out and then he goes on to tell some amazing adventure stories of Um, not only his own accounts, but accounts of like you know, the man Eaters of Tsavo and other stories in there. That's just like massive amounts of adventure man versus wild beast, killing animals, and then you know, being like a hunter. And then he also puts gives a lot of credit to like the native trackers and their skills and abilities. And I just think that that's really cool tying all that in into like this cool adventure book Death in the Long Grass and in the Long Grass, It's funny that I thought it was Ford. Like fly fishing has inspired most of my chagrin. It's inspired so much more literature than conventional tackle and Africa scenes inspire a lot of literature. Yeah, I like somebody like the old classic greats were like moved by Africa. To right, It's like, you know, when these books are written, it's essentially the largest wilderness in the world. Really, I mean a lot of these trips are going on foot or creating roads into these areas and very others. I mean, like a large amount of adventure because it's very untapped UM and still there's parts of Africa that are like that, like semi mysterious. It's so bizarre to me though too, because it's like you could have done that here or in the Yukon. I mean, had we just like knocked down the game numbers so dramatically at that point it was like, well, let's just go to Africa instead. Yeah, And the hay in the in the heyday, it was like that was the that was. It was the good old days here there, it was the dark ages here. One of that stuff was really coming on the scene, you know. From the literary perspective, the book like the book that most changed my view on wildlife and and kind of ecology and environmentalism. Um is a book by a guy that's very uneasy, almost antagonistic toward hunting named Barry Lopez. And it's his book Arctic Dreams and the reason that gets helpful, Like if you like to hunt, the reason that it's a helpful the book to read is Lopez uh in his talk about Eskimo hunters and his talking about wildlife in the Arctic and what's happened to the art, he makes such a compelling case about he doesn't condemn it and he doesn't take cheap shots, but he lays out in a really clear way, like why he's uneasy with hunting, to the point where I think that it actually winds up being like helpful and understanding the mindset. And I think that he offers because he's he's so brilliant articulate. I think he actually offers like a psychological pathway to finding a way to be to to end up being very comfortable with hunting. But it's interesting to read the perspective of someone who uh has just arrived at a hat, arrived at a place where they just don't see it. They don't see it and make them feel a little sick um because there's enough in there that you read and you're like, like I said, I feel like it helps you find a path forward and understanding wildlife and our role to it. And that was like a very like when I read that book, it really shook me up, man, But like not the way that may be questioned what I like to do to maybe just understand what I like to do so much more Arctic dreams. Now, Yeah, and you want to do you want to tell great what he's gotta do? We should I should intro what we're gonna do. Yeah, I'll tell what he has to do because I thought that you could do it well after he picks his No, however, you want to run the show. We are. We have a game we're gonna play called Seeing Through the Bullshit see Him Through, and it is brought to you by our friends at Vortex Optics, and they've been so kind of give us a fury five thousand HD binocular which is their new range finding binocular. There it is right here, and uh, ter pick a random person out of the crowd here right now to uh come and play the game. Um, I'll explain the game in just a second, but I have to pick that person out. I'm gonna have Gray pick a number between one and four, and then a number between one and ten, and then number between one and twelve. I'm gonna how do you do that? First? And then I'll explain how we're gonna get to the person that work one and four three three okay, seven seven eleven three seven eleven okay. So section three we went one to three. So in section three seven rows back, it was last one eleven. If you're if you're the seat from left to right me looking at you the eleven seat over in the seventh row. Got it? Somebody can come on up? Okay, come on up there. You might have come around the back sneak through there. So what we're gonn to do, We're gonna do like a drinking game without drinking. It's two lies. It's two lies and a truth. And again, this is the name of the game is seeing through the bullshit. We're gonna tell two lies and one truth. You got what's your name? Bud kad? Are you good with this? You're excited about it? Come around in front here, man taken set behind ominously. We gotta do? Do we do? We gotta mike? Do we gotta mike? Oh? Yeah, we got He don't really need a mike. I'm sure he can pick it up from the rest of them. Do you to what degree do you feel like you're good at telling with someone's telling you stretcher, Probably not good at all. Well you stick with me, buddy. Do you got Do you have a good pair of binoculars? How how old are you? Seventeen? These are nice binoculars. Do you have you got range finding binoculars? These things do a good job of picking stuff off. We were picking yeah, we were picking off cous here at you know, thousand yards of these things. It's pretty handy. Do you know what have you ever ever played too? Uh? Ever played this game? You've done this? How do you have done it? It's cool? Good? Do you want here a lie or the truth? First truth? That's a joke. I couldn't tell you straight face, good poker face. Okay, Johnny's gonna tell you a story, short story here. Be sure to look him in the eyes. Now, there's out on mountain lion hunting in the state of California. May or may not be aware of this, right, um, right, you know that California band mountain lion hunting outright. At that time, there was a fella who was just getting into running hounds. Okay, um, for the next twenty years, he got so good at running mountain lions. Who oh, sorry, I gotta preface it with they. Um, you couldn't do it legal anymore, right, but the states still needed problem lions and depredation lions taken out, right, So this guy got to working for the state. He got to be a really good hound handler. He ended up catching I think three hundred and seventy nine in the next ten years, I think it was, and he became the state's top um depredation mountain lion hunter. Okay. What makes it crazy though, is that he wasn't running them with the regular walker treeing hounds. He was using a pack of beagles. All right. Late eighteen hundreds, early nine hundreds in the Himalaya, there is a tigress, Lady Tiger, who takes the killing people to the point where this tigress is credited with killing over four hundred people. They had to bring in the army of Nepal to try to kill the tiger. They couldn't get it done. Eventually, an American came and in a couple of days shot it. It's called the chompa Watt Tigress. What do you think? So far? Truth over here? All right? We want to hear the real story. Geat so Reno, Nevad, biggest little city in the world. Right, it's a slogan, okay, So how that that's a new slogan kind of had to reinvent itself, which it did. But there's this guy named Major Reno and he was a player in the worst loss in US military history, Battle of the Little Little Big Horn Montana, okay. And this man had a very checkered career in the military, including at that battle. It was purported that he, in the face of possibly charging Sue and Cheyenne warriors, produced half a bottle of whiskey and told his second in command Ben teen, I've got half a bottle left now. At the time, you could name railroad depots after people in a commemorative sort of way, and the survivors at the Little Big Horn named a new Western Railroad depot Reno as kind of an inside joke because of that man's you know, probably not too good command. They're at battle a Little Big Horn, and that's where you're sitting right now, Sonny, Okay, So is it Cal's story on how Reno got its name by junk captain? Is this the chomper Watt story about the chompa Wat tigress or Yane story about the unlikely mountain lion hunter that uses beagles? Can the audience help him? The audience can help. If you do help, you can do it. I can I can walk over and do one of these, and you guys can cheer for what you think is do it like you got You're not sure, No, I'm not sure. Just cheer for the truth. If you think Yanni was telling the truth, go ahead and give it cheer now. Now, if you think Ryan Callahan was telling the truth, give me cheered. Oh my lord, Stephen Ronella like lions or tigers? Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh man. The Chompero Wat killer, the Chompero Wat tigress, deadliest animal, deadliest animal ever. Jim Corbett killed it, tracked it to its layer, and slew it. It had a busted canine, had busted up and lower teeth that had been shot by a bullet, and it had damaged its teeth. And they figured that that somehow either piste it off or limited its ability to eat native prey, and it started to prey on people in broad daylight. But you know what, dude, We're gonna give you the knocks man, because because there you go, it's vortex fearies. Man, enjoy them. Thanks for playing along. That's Kim the Half. Thank you very much. What's your name again, Cayden? Take care of man? Alright, and guys, are you everybody out there? Uh, we gave our stuff away. Thank you very much for joining us, and uh, stay tuned future episodes and enjoy sheep show. All right, thank you very much, Steve. Birthday, birthday, birthday? One, last thing? Oh what's the last thing? Birthdays? Oh no, no, yeah, oh yeah, don't leave. Who's uh? Who's got a birthday today? Who's birthdays right now? How many people stand up? If you got a birthday today? You need an idea? Prove it? What's that? No? No, no, birthday right now? Birthday right now? Nobody's got it today? Really, no one is anybody's birthday tomorrow? We got a lot of how many tomorrows? Okay, so tomorrow there's we need the oldest people whose birthday is tomorrow. Because you've got less time to be alive. We want make sure you. We want you got less out to be alist. We want you to enjoy it more so, shout out your ages. Sit down, three and what was yours? Oh yeah, you're no good? Three? No, yeah, you guys. Come take one of these Take one of these eddy we need for them, but take one of these eddy chairs. All right, every have a good night. Thank you,