00:00:02 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome episode number thirty six of The Hunting Collective. I'm been O'Brien and today I am joined by Land Tawny. Land Tawny is the CEO of a group called back Country Hunters and Anglers Push Up, hope you are all aware of. We've had his colleague John Gayle on before to talk about what b h A is, what they do Land in this podcast, he and I didn't really get into the nuts and bolts of b H and then in the inner workings and what it is. So if you've never heard of that, stop now and go back and find my podcast with John Gayle and give it a listen, because it will give you a lot of background on the organization. But if you do know what b J is and you do know who Land is, um, hopefully this will be a great exploration of what he thinks, what the organization thinks, their goals, and some of the challenges they face, some of the ays that they intend to solve those problems. We talked a lot about the election, the mid terms, We talked a lot about some of the bigger challenges facing folks in the hunting an angling community. And I always find Land to be a frank character and someone who really tells it like it is and has an understanding of where our community needs to go and is a great voice for all of us. So please enjoy episode number thirty six. And Mr Landwani Lantaani, what's up? Man ben O Brian and he welcome to Bozeman. Although you live in Montana, so I do, I do, but Bozeman is a good place. I don't make it over here often enough. Yeah, this is your first time in the Mediator Incorporated Office? Is what it is you feel about that? Well? What I love is at the outside is very inconspicuous. There's just like one little ten metaters sticker. We're working on it. I kind of like that, like it's like this. Then all of a sudden you going too the Mothership and uh no it's cool space. Uh we were talking earlier. You know, this is kind of like a hub over here with Sickly really close on X. Then you gott Glacier and Mr Raanch and you know what I always say, I've said this for years that Bosman is the Silicon Valley of of the hunting it. You know you should make a T shirt? You think I should make I mean, because you know somebody somebody else is gonna say that that somebody else is gonna like claim it right, that person would be wrong and mostly an asshole because I came up with it. Somebody just everybody knows I said this earlier, like oh yeah, a lot of people been saying that. And one of our wonderful colleagues here's like, well, you doubt you didn't come up with that, Like, oh yeah, I did. Yeah, And so I feel like I made a T shirt on it. Then you then you that is your There's nothing that anybody can do about it once it's on a T shirt. So anyway, Bosman, if you come here, you'll see I'm gonna make a sign and put it up on the highway that says Bozeman Silicon Valley of the West. Now here's one that I just somebody's telling me about. I haven't seen that yet through and it says the best downtown in America or something like that. And I'm like, no offense to Bozeman, but I don't think it's like the best downtown in Montana. So yeah, come on, like that's that's a little self aware, have a little bit of self aware so there's a couple of things like that. Like, you know, it's perspective when I moved to When I moved here, everybody's like, Bom man, it's really a growing place and a lot of traffic. It's super annoying. And and I said, well, how many how many people live here? Forty whatever the number is, It ain't more than fifty. I was like, that's a small town and the all suburb suburb that's like a street corner in Chicago, like you know, coming from Austin, Texas, that's you know, a subdivision. So calm down, you know. They're like, well, there's a lot of traffic. Tell me about that. They're like, are the cars stopped? Are they moving? Look? Well, they're moving little speed, but there's a lot of cars. Like listen, man, it's all relative, right, it's all relative. It's really cold out, but you can ski down there. You know what's gonna happen. I'm gonna remember this conversation and I'm gonna hear you complain about traffic back. I never said as soon as I'm here for like three years. But you know, when I moved to Bom two thousand and eighteen, cars can go sixty five. Now that bullshit. I'm definitely my dad's definitely uh an old grumbly like an old grumbley guy then, and I tell us I'm never gonna be like, right, I'm always going to be like a super positive old man if I ever make that far. You started saying things to your kids that you had your their parents said to you, and like right, like like I'm doing that now, and I'm catching myself and be like, oh, I thought i'd say I'll never say that, you know. But also like, because technology is going so fast. You know this because you have older children than I do. But like I look at sixteen year old human and I'm like, I can't what the fund is that? What is that over there? I don't have anything in common with person, and I'm only thirty two. That ain't good, right, So imagine when we'll like fifty years old, what it's going to be. Yeah, I mean, the tech is moving so quickly, it is. But like, I mean, we're trying as much as we can to keep our kids away from tech. Like my daughter is Tann and she's the only one in her class that doesn't have her own device, is what she says, Like that's a cell phone, iPad, whatever it is. She doesn't have it. And uh and I think like kids will be the same, Like there's like even that sixteen year old, they're gonna be able to fine places to identify with them, right, you know. And I mean like the technology. Yes, Like when you see those kids out and they're all on their phones at lunch, you know, and they're probably texting themselves, like that's that's absolutely blowing my mind. But you get them out in the woods and like, you know, like all that stuff goes away. So that's my favorite part about that. Yeah, yeah, because there is you know, I've always like technology can some in some ways provide perspective, but it's it's artificial because you're not really talking to You're not really in Japan talking to somebody in Japan. If you have a pen pal in the internet, right, it's not a pen pal. People don't say that anymore. Penal. Nobody pen pals on the Internet. I'm definitely and all I'm gonna be an old old man when I'm forty. Yeah, well, yeah, you're already on your way. We're talking about the digital age. I'm like, you know what that digital pen pals. That's great. When email first started, yeah, when I was in high school, I remember when the first cell phones came out, and I don't um, but I do think there is You're it's artificial perspective, right, it's manufactured. You are speaking to someone in a different place and time and a different culture with a different set of experiences, but you're not really with them, right. But when you go when you take someone and go outside and you you know, you delete all that artificial perspective and you get real perspective and it's shared. You can't beat it or use your analogy like you're talking to somebody in Japan whatever over email. You're not really there. If you go there, that's a much different experience, richer experience. Hopefully, you know you're able to find some rich experiences with you. All the sixteen year old are listening out, like we have virtual reality, bitch, I don't know what you guys are talking about. To leave my house and I'm all over the world, Like dude, I'm in the Himalayas right now, and that's right now. I don't know what they're gonna come up with, right, It's gonna be bad. So anything we're saying, oh, man, we are getting all the aren't. I mean, I'm other than you know. I'm forty three, but like I feel like I'm sixty right now in this conversation. I feel bad too. I'm kind of wearing like people can't see us, but I'm wearing kind of like a cardia, like an old man. I'm solid in the mirror to old man smell. I'm getting the gray on the beard. That's the big thing that's changing. That that in the hair on my head, right like our two indications I'm getting Besides like that my knees are like when I'm going up and down those Yeah, it's not great anyway, The outdoors are great. You guys should go don't have you ever heard of those? Yes? Should go there. So let's talk about virtual reality for a minute, because I think we're going to get to some deep subjects, deeper than do you feel do your kids haven't if there been any rumblings in their worlds. I mean, they're live in Montana, so there's a little bit of different environment, like what's the what are their friends doing in the tech space? Like what do they have? What do they playing? In Fortnite? A huge thing and like I like my son, he's playing basketball right now, Like I'll watch me practice and all a sudden you have to start doing that one dance. Dude. It's like and he has never even played the game, but it's like all his buddies are playing it. And then like the dances is kind of like this thing. Um, so I'd say that's huge. Um what aunts I mean? I mean my kids just like we're not letting them do it, and so like I'm not getting I'm not in this hip onto like what like the technology that they're doing, you know, I mean like like we're playing I guess, uh what is it? Minecraft is gigantic with these kids, which I mean, I'm a big Lego guy. You know. It's playing Legos, you know, and I still like it. Like I'll admit it. I still like playing Legos and I buy my son Legos and my daughter so I can build them and I don't play with them after that, but like building stuff, and so that idea of Minecraft. You're kind of building stuff all the time. So I can see the attraction to that. Um, but like that is the one we have, you know, ps flour at our house and we have Minecraft and my son. He gets to play that, like for an hour on the weekends, and that's what he wants to. We have soccer, we have football. Who wants play Minecraft. I'm doing this because I like, I'm working for a digital media company. Right now, I sound like someone who shouldn't be working for additional media. I think when next meeting is like Minecraft met either Minecraft in the next board meeting and then Fortnite. Have you ever heard of it? It's awesome. We should invest get get Steve doing the dance and see what happens. Yeah, that'll probably you never know. We gotta freshen this place up a little bit. That's right. Um, changing subjects taken. There's no transition. There's a hard turn that there's no transition from Fortnite into politics. If there is one, please, you know, please let it help me something about like I don't know much about the game. That's something about zombies walking around kind of politics. Strain the swamp situation. Um, there was this election here recently. Um, you know, I think everybody in the lead up now, with our media coverage in the way that we kind of running cycles, I think every election feels like the most important election. I don't know if that's um, I would imagine that's not generally unique to our time and our generation. But there is still massive amounts of chatter around these these elections, whether it's a midterm like we just experienced, or it's a presidential election, whatever it ends up being cubinatorial, it doesn't matter. Um. So, as you think about in your position with b h A and your position as a leader into conservation space, how do you view elections, like do you view them as opportunities for much needed change? Do you do you view the HM as you know, um general opportunities for new legislation or is it maintenance for what we already have? Like how did you come into this mid term? What were your thoughts around how how you would approach it? That's a good good question, UM. I think that first I look at this maybe globally, like this opportunity to vote is pretty unique in the world, and what a special thing that we have. And you know, it's an opportunity for you to make your voice count, you know, and for me, we shouldn't take that lightly, you know. And so I think the idea that every election you know, is like important it is, you know, and like people like, your voice doesn't count unless you use it right and stop bitching. You know if if you don't vote right now, if you vote, you got a chance to bitch because you know, you actually participated in this process. And so just fundamentally, they're like, how rad is that? I think that's like a good thing. Um. I think, you know, elections in general are opportunities to to really provide or it's a vehicle for talking about the things that you care about, you know, and whether that's public lands and waters which we care about, whether that's you know, an array of other issues, healthcare, whatever it is. Elections bring that out and they make people like focused on those issues and then the elected, you know, the people that are running for office, they have to talk about them to the people on where they stand. I think that's a really good thing. And without elections, you know, I think I think you have an opportunity to talk about your issues more during election cycle sometimes because there's hyper awareness right right, people trying to make a decision. Absolutely. Um, So you know, before I talk about kind of maybe how we have b h A and me in particularly as CEO looked at this, I think when I look at our system here in the United States, it's there's a system, it's a system of checkers imbalances. And I think that, um, there's this word compromise that has become a dirty word. And well, if you compromise, that means that you've you're weak. Yeah, you're and like nobody wants to be seen as weak and so weird and we're gonna not move forward with something because we don't want to look weak, and so, uh, compromise is important. I think that when you find compromise, that's something that stands the test of time. When you force something down somebody's throats on the far left or on the far right, just using those kind of two political parties, I don't think it's gonna last very long. I think it's the stuff that's forged in the middle that is compromised. And so it's a long way of saying that for this election in particular, when you have the presidency and both houses controlled by one party and I don't care again if that's Democrats or Republicans, there's not as much compromise that is happening at that point. Now that you have one house that's gonna be controlled by one party, and another um by the other and then a presidency like you have a much more opportunity for compromise. And I think that sweet spot that is in the middle right and so um either that or nothing's gonna happen. And if nothing happens, like that's bad for the country. And I think that's one of the reasons why you know, people are frustrated with the rhetoric that is out there, uh, is that things aren't happening. And so I think that's probably you know, what elections are for is to help people create opportunities for that. And I think you know, there's many things that the Democrats want to get done, there's many things that Republicans want to get done. And guess what if they want to get those things done, they're going to have to work to have to always find that to be you know, one of the logical fallacies of the way our politics works, Like we have these two and these we always are addressing polarity. We're never we never get to start the conversation by addressing our our similarities. We never need to be like, you know, what we both agree on, because that's too easy. But we so we start by addressing our the polarity in our value systems and the way we think, which which gets you down the wrong road from the from taking step one, waste your time to waste your time. There's talk about things we disagree on, and it's that just creates that. That's our political environment right now. It's like people are you know, my my family in my family circle there like let's just not talk about politics, Like what are you what? That's what else are we going to talk about? That was my grandma at the dinner table, like yeah, my grand that was like a generational thing because my grandfather used to be like, there's three things we don't talk about. It's like I camera, religion, politics, and sex. I was like, those are the three most interesting thanks to talk I think. I think definitely I don't want to be talking about sex with my grandparents. Listen, Grandpa got a question at the dinner table. Yeah, uh yeah, I mean compromise. It's again, it's like that's it's shown as weak, and I think that I hope that people start understanding that's how this country works, you know, and like that's a few and I go out tonight and go have a beer. And if I was like, no, you can only drink this beer. You're like, I don't like that beer, and I'm like, no, you're drinking that beer. Like we wouldn't be able to hang out, you know, like that just wouldn't happen. But if I'm like, well, you can have a picture of that this time, a picture this next time, I have a different beer and tell each other why these beers are better than the other one, you know, and it's you know, we could talk about that, then let's let's go better, better used with a beer in hand. But I think like that, I think we need to talk about compromise. And I think now that we're gonna be with these um different parties controlling different houses, like we're gonna get closer to that. A lot people want and say it's gonna be solved tomorrow, but I mean, yes, I mean I think that's it's gonna be contentious too. That's part of what like my original question around your feet, like when you think about you know, mentally and emotionally, like think about the mid term, because when I thought about the mids and rounds, stressed out, man, because I know I knew a lot of good things would happen. I knew a lot of I just knew it would be a mix of good and bad for like my value system, and I hope to learn some stuff along the way. But like the stress was around talking about it. The stress was around the anxiety was around bringing up the subject and knowing wading into the pool that it was gonna have sharks in it, like and that that is sort of like me, he likes talk. That sucks, man, because there's some important issues there we should be able to hammer out without being too worried that a bunch of people are gonna hate you for just being just just for wanting to have the conversation, not for saying I know I'm right, but for saying, hey, here's a thing that we should discuss. And even for that fact, knowing that you're gonna get you know, some negativity brought into it. Yeah, I mean I think the uh, I mean, politics are bloody sport, especially around elections. You know, I mean it's like you have a winner and you have a loser, and um, you know bad things, you know, are sad about people, and I mean it's a pretty bloody sport. But and I think during that time, like you're describing that it's hard to kind of maybe talk about these things because things are so hot. Well, now the elections happen, change, the changes have happened. Let's move forward like there's nothing else to do. Then move forward in my mind, and so hopefully even our president said that his uh, I don't like to listen to anything that he says, um, just because he says because he's just foolish things. But I listened to that, you know, because I was after the election. I was kind of in this mode of wanting to collect my thoughts around what had happened and what the impact was and then move on with my life. And you don't understand like this, you know the environment we're now in, and move on and you live my life. But I did listen to his precially his news conference directly after the elections were over, um, and he said, hey, now we can be a little nice to each other, Like okay, that's good, but maybe we just practiced that all the time all the time, right, Like that should be the way it is all the time, but it needs to be. But yeah, listen, we can go through that all day. But I think that's not going to happen. But it is good to hear have him hear him say that, and then let's see how it happens in practice. You know, they have this, We're get into details that are probably a little bit We'll have his lame duck session, you know that. I think a lot of things will potentially happen between now and the first week in December, and then you'll have a break over the holidays, and then new Congress will start in January, and you know, we'll see how they want to play. And um, I think it's I think it's anytime there's a transition where there's been a house control by somebody and then there's a new leadership, I think it's really important, uh that we focus on what's good for the country at that point, versus like it's now time to uh put your notches in the belt and so to speak, right like, oh you guys did this? Did you did this us for so long? Now we're gonna do it to you. And I that is something I'm very tired of and I hopefully we can move past that. Well. I mean, I was in DC a couple of months ago and talking to some folks, and that's something that came up around a lot around that partisanship was came up two or three different times, but I thought it was odd around the duck stand m and you know, the sportsman going to Congress sing raise that sucker, raise that tax. We are the constituency that will pay the tax. We're asking you to raise it as directly affects us, and we want it, want it. And there there's some folks in our government that were like, listen, I got elected by saying that I would never raise a tax. They're like, yeah, yeah, I get that, I get that, but you can think critically, yes, like this is the one exception to what you ran on, right, the constituency that will pay the tax, that is getting taxed, its demanding for the raise in the tax, and like that is the one most you know, that's an extreme example, I think, but an example of roadblocks that just shouldn't exist, logically can't exist if we're gonna get anything done. Yeah, I mean I know that senator by name. Yeah I do too. And and like at the same time, he got an award that year from an organization that is based around the duck stamp, you know, and like I just listening to the people, I think is the most important thing, right, you know, I like this idea of flip flopping. Let's say, like I said, no new taxes, and if I do this and I'm so flopping. Know you're listening to the people, like you're getting more information. You know, the same thing with like uh Jason Schaefitz. You know, like when he changed his ideas on the sale of those three million acres, that was a good thing because he listened to even if he didn't want to write. He got dragged what he did. I got drag kicking and streaming. At least he stopped kicking and screaming at some point and he gave in, like that's politicians should do that. That that sound government opinion. They're representing the people, right, So now I think like you're right on that one. Um. I think back to like, you know, these elections create opportunities to create dialogues and to talk about, you know, issues that are important to you and for us that's public lands and public waters. And what's great about when the election is as far as timing, and this is the September is kind of this month. You know, you have public national Public LANs Day, you have National Hunting Fishing day and a couple of years ago, we're like, man, that's great for those days, but let's like think about September is like public LANs Month, right, And so really celebrated Public LANs Month in September and then started a campaign about voting for public lands and waters. And really what that campaign is is that, you know, we legally can't tell you to vote for you know, I can't say pick you know that that politician over there is the one that's going to support us no matter what, go vote for them. We can't do that as a five O one C. Three. What we can do is start to have people like critically ask questions, you know, and then, you know, one of the things that's great and when politicians are on the stump, you know, going out and talking to a bunch of people they like to like to get votes and say things. And then once they say those things, you can hold them accountable if they win, right, And so like being able to talk to them and ask them questions about public lands and waters during that month of September and then up to the election, I think was a really important thing. So I think what we were really with our vote public Lands and Waters campaign are trying to do is really one is to you know, have people think about that when they make that vote. But it also creates this dialogue then for the politicians that are running at that point. Yeah, that's that's important. That dialogue is and to do something I've heard you say before in a lot of people have it. It's it seems common sense, but I think in practice is challenging for people. Like if if you go to a rally, or if you pick up a pen and paper or go to your computer and write an email to these these politicians, the will read it and listen if you you know, if you're pointed and you stay your case. I have found I've done it many times. Like you'll a lot of times you get a letter back pretty quick. Yeah, and sometimes you know a lot of times it will be four letters. But I think what's happening then, and now we're getting into like policy sides, but like, um, is that that staffer that that just correspondent who's opening the mail is keeping score right? And so then they're reporting to their boss that day, right, and they're saying, okay, we've got you know, five letters over here that's say this, and then one letter over here it says this like there and so you know, this is what we got. But it gives them an idea of what the representation of their constituents, what their constituents think, right, and so like it's super important and um, no matter what, like you know, that's a way for your voice to count. Um. But one thing, and I'd be missed not to say this, is that we did for the first time this year, we did Canada questionnaires and so basically as a five of one C three, it's something we can do, um, go out and ask you know, candidates that are running, so both the Democrat and the Republican give them a fair opportunity to be able to answer the questions and then just publish what they say, you know, verbatim and not not what they said on an interview, but what they write now. Right, So there's no I can't exactly there's no bait and switch or anything like that, like oh I kind of heard him say this, I'm gonna say that, So it's exactly what they said. And then we published those and so we did those in three states that in Colorado, New Mexico, and Wisconsin. And uh, and again I'm that's our first time doing I'm super excited that we did it. Our folks on the ground, you know, our account, crash Roots Army, we're the ones that we're reaching out to those campaigns. It wasn't you know, me or John Gale reaching out to them, it was people on the ground and we got a great response back. And as far as like participation, and so what that sets us up for I hope is that is it in that we can do that in all fifty states. Yeah, we start to doing up in Canada as well. And so again we can't tell you who to vote for it, but we can provide information for you so you can look at Canada X candidate Y and say, oh, well that's what they said about this issue, and this is what they said, you know about this issue. So it's fantastic they you know, and the person can figure out for their own like who they want to vote for. But you know, I've probably talked about this before, like I really feel, you know, conservation groups that is the job. The job is to gather together like minded people and inform them of what the right choices are and what the important issues are. And and p H has done that in spades. With you know, it confines in my mind around Chafe. It's but it's more than that. But you know, National Monuments people, you know, lay to Water Conservation Fund was not trending some years ago. It's pretty rad now, right, So rad, it's rad. That's the people know what it is. Yeah, people know what it is. So I think there's some there's a lot of power in that. And as long as they as long as you're you're swinging that big stick to inform, you can't lose, you'll never know. And I think and that's and I think, you know, that's one of the for those people listening to this. It's like, one of our most important jobs is as a nonprofit and that h A is to help educate. But I think as as a voter, as an American citizen, one of the most important things that you can do is educate yourself. And and b h A, yes, please listen to us, become a member, all those things. But there's many places to get information right now, and go get that information and then make educated decisions, you know. And I think, um, you know, we talked about voting before, and I think, you know, it's a responsibility for us to vote but also to make an educated vote. You know, if you're just going in there and just kind of going down and doing things by the party line or just kind of um not voting with information, I think that does a disservice to this country. Yeah, I think you're right about that, and I think sportsman, you know, hunters and anglers are understanding that more than ever I I would pose it. I think awakening, awakening, hapning is happening. We were talking about that a little bit earlier. I mean, I feel like there is this willingness too. You've seen it b h A events. We've seen it at you know, Mediator Live events. I've seen it even with the Eddie. I mean that people willing to travel, willing to like, are committed to this idea and willing to give for it and give a lot for it. And if you and I feel if you're willing to give for something, you damn sure are at the same time willing to put in the effort to be educated about it. I mean, I feel like those things go hand in hand, and so what you guys are doing in b h A is huge. Yeah, I mean I call it the awakening, but also like the revolution, right, like the people when they are educated and they know what they want, then they will demand their politicians. And again it doesn't matter if you're a Democrat Republican. Public plans and public waters like they cross a lot of party lines. Well, I always say it's trending because it's it's it's an easy play, like it's an easy America Bald Eagles public plans. But maybe that's a T shirt as I'm Merican, as apple pies America. I've used that Labe before. I will tell you I said before. Have you said that anyway? Boseman? Is the look about back to your back to your great statement today. Yeah, there's people anybody like if you if you follow them. The Mediator podcast, Steve made a quote about high fence squirrel hunting. You guys put it into the and then there is no high squirrel hunting, and we immediately made a T shirt. And so all everything I say on every podcast from now on is in an effort to get T shirts made about what I'm saying. I love it because there's a hundred people are gonna wear that shirt. Yeah, So I'm right now, I'm thinking everything every sentence I say, I'm trying to make it into a T shirt. And when I love about that squirrel on is the conversations that will be started around that, like people that don't hunt, what are you talking about? Can't squirrels climb fences? Exactly exactly what were we talking about back? But I mean I don't know that. I mean, I think the idealism in America, Yeah, well, like an education, right, you know. I think that's what BH is trying to do. And I think that's why we're growing so quickly. Is that, um, people you don't see kind of uh that we're honest players and this whole thing, you know, and like here's the information if you want to be part of our tribe. We're building a coalition of the willing and they're coming in droves. And I think that you know, these politicians, I think you know, and if I watched this last election, um, and we're sitting here in Montana, I mean public lands played a major role, a major role, and I think that's exciting to me. You know. I think I said, uh to somebody after the election, is that you know, people I want to put a roof over their head and they want to, you know, talk about medicine and right now, public lands a least in this state is like one of those top three issues, and that is exciting. I think there's other places in the in the country like Colorado and Idaho. You know, played a big role in the governor's race over in Idaho. Um more in the primary than it did in the general, but definitely in the in the primary. And so public lands is becoming an issue that is a top tier issue. And I think it's partly because it's such a unifying issue, you know, and and and and it's also a place to pick up votes in the middle. You know, if you want to get elected, you gotta be right on public lands and public waters and um. So I think that election proved some of that. I think that you know, there was three ballot initiatives that we looked at, in particular one in Connecticut. Connecticut, Uh, the way it was before this ballot initiative was passed was very easy for whoever was in charge of the the administration just to sell their state public land. So before I even talk about that, it's another reason why we do not want you know, federally managed public lands transfer to the states, because they will sell them. And and so Connecticut was very easy, and so what this basically ballot initiative did was it made it very hard on our harder. It's like a two thirds and then there has to be a public input and you know that got voted. I think it's like that it passed. Like that's awesome that people came out of the woodwork and we're like, hey, we like our state lands, you know, and like if you're gonna divest them, okay, maybe that one should be, but we want to be part of that process. And so that was super cool. Um and did that with a bunch of partners, you know up there. I think we moved down to Georgia and I think this is really cool. It's rad Now in Montana doesn't translate because we don't have a sales tax um, but down there and I hope this is something that and I'll start to permeate in other states. But basically you have a sales tax on outdoor goods there. Instead of that just going in the general fund, now it'll go back to conservation and access and I think it's up to like eighty percent or something like that, which is so cool that that means then the users are then paying for the thing. You know, this is like the backpack tax that we all kind of talked about at a federal level, but this is happening at a state level. It's not new taxes and utilizing existing taxes to pay for the stuff that we all care about, which is you know, most of our system of funding. I mean Pivin Robertson was originally back in you know, the nineties when it was put out, there was, as they sing, tax that they torn over, so there was never any new back to you know, the nearly hundred years of that tax, which has been very successful. It's never been anything other than no, and it's done. Look at the things that it's done, you know, like the leverage that we've been able to accomplish with that, like a billion dollars a year, right, Um, So that want was superside and it also passed by Like do you feel like that's a that'll be like a breeding you know, that'll be a litmus test for for that idea, absolutely, I think. And and the idea that it passed, you know, ad plus like both of those passed over eighty um. The Georgia Wildlife Federation down there, I think, you know, they've been working on this issue for a long time. Our chapter in the Southeast is new and it was something that they were able to grab onto. You know, the one thing we can do is the five one C three is we can support ballot initiatives or measures, I guess, whatever way you want to say it. Um. And so that was one that we totally build into, which I think was pretty cool. Yeah, there's there's a bunch of those. We were working on a piece for the the meteror dot com right now that'll be out soon, probably be out by the time this gets on the line. But um, about ballot initiatores because that's an interesting one. You I think people get caught up in the popularity contest of of guy one versus guy to or get you know however that works. Um, but these balance is just kind of get swept under the rug unless it's some connected to some other value related like it's you know, connected to marijuana or connector something that has a little bit of a spin up in the media cycle. But for sports and these are I mean, you played really well, Like like both of those played really well. And I think besides the sports's community, I think that was like the outdoor community really supported that, and so I was just gonna say, like the Georgia Wildife Federation have been around for a long time, you know, and like they've been working on this, and then a coldition that included us and others were able to come in and we provide some muscle to get that thing over the finish line, which is super sweet. Um. And then the last one, and I guess I'll talk about one more after this. It's a local one, but it was in Colorado and basically, um, this was this was one that was defeated, which thankfully, but that was going to uh pay landowners for um changes in like wildlife management that potentially could be harmful to their business or to their property. Um. And so then we the taxpayers are gonna be paying them for having wildlife like let's let's say on their property. And that to me is like so backwards, Like if you're gonna live in these wild places, then one of those requirements is like you're you're in you know, you're part of that whole ecosystem. We have a social contract here, societal contract. You can own that ground that's our wildlife, still you know you're holding it in trust for us, so don't mess it up, man. Absolutely, So that got defeated, UM thankfully, and it got defeated like by seventy percent. So the amounts of a huge number as well. So I think again like just using those three as like bell weathers, like people are paying attention to these issues, and two were passed overwhelmingly and one was defeated over whelmingly. That we're right in our wheelhouse as conservationists and as public landowners. So to me, UM, that's a good sign of things. One back home, we've done a UM open space bond. You know, for like last two decades, we've had money to provide open space. So that's for recreation, that's for viewsha, that's for clean air and clean water, for wildlife habitab. And so this year it was on the ballot again, uh, fifteen million dollars I think from Assoula UM with another one that was like half million dollars for maintenance. And both of those passed overwhelmingly. Like it's one of those ones when like one percent is in and they call it and you're like, oh, wait a minute, there's still ago, So we're gonna how's that happen? But there's that's they had indications and exit points that whatever they could call it. And so that's called early and um, I'm pretty excited about that. It's for my backyard, Missoula. Um. And they're going to concentrate on the kind of river corridor, the Clark Fork, so in town, but also you know east and west of town too, So I'm excited about that. Would you grade like around this bellot and issues? How would you grade hunters of anglers? Are the sports this community? How do you want to call it? How would you grade our ability to you know, see those things that address them, like in the right way possible, Like if you're looking at the whole of the election, the whole of the ballot initiatives and the entire picture, I hate to we need to do better. I think we need to do better. I think in Georgia. What I mean, I think I mean the places I think in Georgia, um and in Connecticut, and I know those much better than they than one called RIGHTO. I think I give those like B pluses. Yeah, um, but I think in general we could be doing a much better job. Yeah, what what areas specifically? Because I know it's hard, it's well, it is. But I think it's also you're getting to something. Is is that I think you know, we're talking about the responsibility at b h A, and I think we take it very seriously and trying to inform our people, right, and so that's why we did those Canada forums and don't excuse me, cand of questionnaires and so I wish the sportsman's community as a whole we're doing more of that and we're not. You really aren't, you know, And I like I could slam on the table and talk about how cool b h A is because we're doing this, which maybe a little bit, but we're only cool as a community if if we're doing in that all over the place and with multiple organizations and so that you have multiple you know, piece of information to look at as a voter before you go forward. So I yeah, see is being nice? Yeah now because we you know, as we looked at the election specifically Ranella and I looked at it, but this company here, you know, it's like, okay, we know the issues and it would be super easy if there was a politician out there or a party out there that picked them all up. Um, because we really looked at public lands and access we kind of lump those two things together, which you could separate him, but we we lumped together for efficiency probably habitat and really around habitat. I always like I've become really like the peoples, like, what do you know, what's your main goal when hunting? I kind of think right now, my main goal is to as healthy ecosystems. Like if if you haves to had me like, what's the one thing that what's your one main goal? I mean, like, gosh, I gotta tell you. It's it's the health of the overall thing. It's not you know, it's knowing that elk aren't just you know, mountains aren't vending machine for elk. It's knowing that like to really be to really be a greater part of our society, we got we have to be all about healthy ecosystems um clean air, clean matter, and even if you're not gonna go chase that elk around, right, those ecosystems provide that if you're in a big city and you're drinking water and you've got clean air that you're not you know, coughing around. It's those wild places that pro well, it goes, it goes to land use. Yeah, it goes to public and private land use, Like how do private landowners, like we were just talking about there, how do they um hinge cut or how do they you know keep repairing corridors intact? Or how do they you know, leave nesting grounds and and like there's just so many things that like just as a general person that goes like to go outside, that's what I think. Um So that's you know, for us, that was really where we where we stopped at habits at We're like, wait a minute, here we are you know you. The next one is being wildlife management, but it's kind of the same, there's the same ethos there. The fourth one is guns. Now you can you know, there's no we don't have any real problems around archery rights. I don't feel like anybody trying to take our broadheads, which but maybe you heard it here first. Yeah, they're trying to take away mechanicals. Alright, alright, you concealed broad hits, and so like I think, but I think guns becomes the fourth one. And so as I look at because I tend to think like it's nice that we started with balance is just first, because I tend to think micro to macro in this situation, I tend to think, like one of the things I can do for my state or where I live or my people, and then what, Okay, got that taken care of. Now let's address the macro what's what's going down on a bigger level. But so it's like, if you were to take those four things, am I missing anything there? If I said public lands and access, guns, habitat, wildlife management, are we missing any big issues? Because I think those buckets are big enough to put anything in. Yeah, you can put anything in there. Um, how do we you know, we talked about this before and this is something that comes up and gets gets pretty prickly. But guns versus it's really kind of hey, just put it like this, but it's kind of guns versus the other three When you look at party to party? Am I wrong in saying that? I mean I think there's exceptions, course, But as a general rule, yeah, I would say, like stop and saying like there's exceptions. Not every Republican does one thing that every demercant, but like as party lines go in a in a in a gross generalization, that could be dangerous, yes, And so anybody like don't hold back, don't bend that or me, because there's definitely that's a gross granization. I get that, but just trying to line it out like as a value system thing for folks, that's pretty fair, um, which is unfortunately, which is and it doesn't have to be that way, And I think that's sorry to breaking in, but I think that's one of the things that we're trying to do a b h A. Right. We think every politicians to care about public LANs, public waters. Now, there may be nuances within that and how you know things get done, um, But if we start there, um, and then we're working with both sides of the then we should be in a much better place. Well. And there were some good examples in this election cycle around. You can't get to the table unless you're into public lands, like don't even show up some state elections where you might as well just not be here if you're not into public LANs, um, which I thought was was the movement, intangible movement right there. This is this is what happens when enough people agree that this thing is special and this thing is important and so um, how do we and guns have already been that we've already we've we've crested that Mountain long long ago around Like, we a lot of people vote based on gun rights. Um, there's a lot of places where you can't really get to the table unless you unless you're a certain way around the Second Amendment. So I guess my biggest question is if and I think they're alive. I've heard from a lot of people, and I know this is true, gun rights on one side and public lands, access, healthy ecosystems on the other. What do we do, like, how do we how do we bring people to the middle, but also how do we deal with our current situations? Yeah, you're done. I had a guy in here earlier that basically said that. He said he told his daughter he was like, listen, man, he lives in Florida, and I brought up the caring for the Everglades versus gun rights scenario, and he's just like I kind of told my daughter like maybe this is the time where we just don't vote. I was like, dude, get out of here, this is not the answer and take a walk. That's just that, that's it's not the answer to me. I think that, you know, for me, that's the people demanding what they want, right, It's not good enough for you. To be just great on guns, Like you gotta be good on public lane. It's gotta be good on acces. It's gonna be good on habitat. You gotta be you know, all those things that are the other three. There are pretty three, pretty big buckets. But you can do both, right, And so I think that's that side, and I think it's the other side, you know, demanding that they're you know, they're better around guns while they're good at those other things. And so I think we the people, Um, how do you do that? I think let's I mean, the Land of Water Controvation Fund here in Montana has become something that you support or you do not get elected. Now, that didn't happen in a vacuum. That happened over you know, a decade probably of sportsmen including h A and others, and then the greater conservation community demanding that. And now that is the way it is like that, that is the line in the sand, right, And so I think, to me, how that happened? That happened with a lot of accountability, you know, holding people when they say one thing and do another, you know, holding them account of will. And it's also like cheerleading and so when somebody does come around and they start to support something that maybe they did in the past, that you cheer lead the heck out of that. So how does that happen? I think that's the way you do it. Um doesn't happen overnight. That's a long term process. But I think that's not the part of the problem. I think with the elections to right, that's why I would hate, you know, to be a house member. Right, you're always running. You know, every two years is the election, but you are always running. Every single thing that you are doing is setting you up for that next election. And every single thing you do that that in the moment or even you know till most your constituency is a good always has a negative. You're never in a win win never, and so like it's hard to think long term that way, Right, It's like, okay, where's the wind that you know, like this is this is why my people think right now, and I ought to be responsive to that, which is good. So like it's hard to think long term. And so that's what as supports this community. Like what I I personally struggle with and hope we can all achieve at some point, which we're humans will never achieve it. But like the stiff wind, blow in the same direction all the time because the politicians have if there if if they're wind veins, they got no choice. But they got no choice, but the blow with us. I'm gonna like steal that one from you, like man that like like a stiff wind, there'd be a whole I might look like, um, but it's true, you know. I mean I think if you create enough of a grassroots kind of voice, right no matter what the issue, and just pound on it. There's one that I was giving an example of that. Maybe it's a little weird, but when I was growing up, like there was like there was no uh like none of them, Like the kids that I grew up with had gay parents. Yes there was divorced families, but that was like a man and woman and there was none of that. Gay rights weren't even talked about. This is like when you know, this is not that long ago. And now my daughter has a classmate who has four moms, which means there was two moms that were together first and then they got divorcing, married, you know, two other women. My daughter doesn't. It's like somebody's hungry. Um, we're a dog friend and Tulie's here, Tulie, we'll get your food here a minute. Um, nobody probably here that than us. But anyway, it's the uh that like she doesn't even care, it's not even a big deal. So by the time she's voting age that is, she was gonna be so far and gone. I probably saw and then, but like it's just that's just the way it is. And so like like these things are changing, things are progressing, and so when I think about like public lands and like the long term viability of that, like we're having these conversations now, and I hope it becomes like, you know, like weird to use that nowgy, but this thing that it's just the way it is, you know, And that's like you are going to be supportive of these things, and if you are not, then you are so far out on the limb that nobody really if I started if this hunting podcast was expressly against public lands, I'm sorry, but I'd be out. And if this podcast was expressly against guns, I'd be out too. And I would want I would want people to kick me out right, kick me out of the boat. If I'm being that way. Analogy Yeah, somebody's telling us it's like almost trying to wrap this thing. Yeah, let's go, go go. She's fine. Um, but I I think that's that's a big part of it, you know, is picking those topics that sticking to him. That's that's We're just now getting to a point where this movement for public lands, this movement for clean access or clean water and clean land and is becoming a big enough pool that it's it's it feels to me like the weight of it is the same as the weight of the Second Amendment. Like it feels like before a lot of people just voted when they're thinking about sportsmen that are just thinking, you know, if you're if you're an r A A plus candidate, I'm voting for you. Um, that's not necessarily the case now, because there is this other very heavy thing in the room that says like you better come to the table public lands to you, some bitch, you know, Like yeah, So that's it's just starting to get complicated because I think of where we are. So I think that's partly like the I think that's partly the the ethos that's changing, and like partly like the education that's starting to happen. It's also there's these things on the outside that are happening as well, you know, And like I think about you know, these fires, and in California right now, we've been having catastrophic fires for the last decade. You know. Now we've got one the like it's that's the deadliest one on record in California, fifty six people. It's super, super sad. But one of the things I'm listening to, you know, UM on the radio on the way over here today is, um, there's many factors that are contributing to that fire, you know, suppression for a hundred years, building in this or you know this like forest kind of urban interface that like probably we have no business and a building then, you know. And so like part of I think why these conversations are him the top tier is because of these pressures from the outside as well. They're just reality and its mother nature like, and that's what's happening. And we're growing, you know, our population the United States, our population in the world that's growing all the time. We're just causing more stresses on our planet, and so how are we going to carry forward? You know? And I think those things are now being pushed in our face. You know, I think you know, uh, climate changes are pretty which is pretty uh um hot topic pun intended. But the that as it becomes more of a reality, we have to deal with that. Guess what We're going to deal with it and tell that stuff is right in our face. And the fires are part of that example, besides other things, you know, I mean, she level rise, all these things. That's when her that's when we're gonna start to do something about it. And I don't know for a critical mass there yet, but it starts to starting to feel I feel like it. I remember, you know, I was a editor of Puny magazine. This is maybe six seven years ago, and we wrote a piece about um, the most population in Minnesota, right how the changing climate was affecting UM a lot of things and killing a lot of moves the texts in particular, and and I thought, wow, you know, when I read the article, I thought I was written by a phone named David Hart. And I read and I thought, what a great exploration of like just impacts of just how what we care about and and and the greater effect on our world is starting to kind of, you know, really cozy up with each other here and what and I and I guess, rather foolishly, I thought our readership or the hunting community would embrace that and be like, yeah, okay, something good to think about. Let me do a little bit more thinking on that. But man, I've never seen any more hate mail coming to a publication around because it's been so politicized. And so I hope that you know, what we're talking about with the stiffed wind is like, yeah, let's politically let's let's stiff wind and with the politicize of the things that that really we know to be good and true. You know, let's line up the apple Pie public LANs and and and I think guns right in there, um like both there's another shirt apple Pie, guns, public lands, both of that ship. Like, I think that's it has to be that way though, you know, and I think like we are shooting ourselves, um another pun, but like we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we're only thinking about guns, and we are shooting ourselves in the foot, if we're only thinking about like you know, access and habitat and those other things. Right now, I myself, I am not that worried about my guns being taken away but there are threats out there and so we have to do both. And and to me, um, it's no longer you can be either side, and it's no longer we should demand from our politicians that they care about both. And if we demand that's stiff men, then we will get it. And if they if they don't, like, if they don't listen to us, guess what, they don't get elected. Well that's they swing. This all the way back to super idealistic conversation in the beginning here where we're talking about vote and that's what it means to vote, and it's like, that's what this means. Though you have a chance to be part of that changing tide or that the stiff wind. Like if we all together say, hey, you don't get to call yourself an advocate for sportsman unless you have one, two, three, four things checked off and don't come with that bullshit. Don't come over here with that bullshit. Don't come over here with that. Like I'm a sportsman, I love this. I do prove it right. And if if we all um can agree on those things, then and again, you know Ronelle and I the podcast you can listen to that we did right around you know, prior to the election, um, we thought we tried to answer the question of if you had to choose between guns and public lands, what would you do or guns and healthy ecosystems. And we're like, funk that we don't want to do that. If we did, we would give up our guns and then immediately go get them back. Like if you if I had to make that to today, I'd be like, here's your guns. But then I would go and start a rebellion and when you get him back. But I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. And so if there's any organizations out there, you know, I I love h but if if you know, if we get sniffs of like this isn't what's going on, we'll call it out. But it is what's going on. And I think another thing sportsman's sportsman need to do, hunters need to do is sniff harder, don't don't listen to rhetoric, like and like, that's what I love about. That's another T shirt, dude, that one. Actually we are coming out with that one as a killer one. Here. We are coming out with a pro nuance, anti bullshit t shirt. I'm announcing that right now for the Hunting Collective that it's got little stars on it looks like a Trump election shirt. But that's but that goes to that it's like look harder, fucking look harder. Absolutely absolutely, I like I I am probably the poster boy for having been in like caring about both these things a whole ship ton, you know when it comes to some of things that that are beating up against each other right down and it's on meat if freaking think it out. That's why podcasts like plug for this podcast, right, they're so important because they are long form conversations versus a meme or a headline that you see, right, which are basically the same thing, you know, and like you know, the algorithms or whatever, and the Russian bots that are like infiltrating us, like you're getting like some pretty serious propaganda pushing your face that is not doesn't have any depth to it, right, So go out listen to podcasts, go read. Like that's the education part that we talked about earlier too, Like it's that's vital for us to be uh an educated, you know, electorate Yeah no, And I think that's spin that all up together. You know, we could talk about who won, who lost, but like it's not necessary and I and you know, I mean, I guess I don't want to be jibalianish, but I think now that we have chambers controlled by two different parties, I think we're hopefully in a better place. Yeah, yeah, no, And again like I think it goes going back to podcasts and and are great friend. I think we could call him friend of the program. Joe rogan um Is says it all the time, like go watch Fox News, go watch MSNBC, and try to find where true ideas are being exchanged in a way that is productive for the ideas to grow and find their legs, Like go find a segment. Sometimes I'll turn around like a news and they'll be like seven people and I don't host, and they're like they're all covering, and one of them says like three sentences and somebody cristals like wait, wait, wait a minute, and they bouncing around like a pinball machine and there's really no dialogue that's going on. No, nothing's going Everybody just like wrote down ten things to say before um and that there's my talking point where com s check all right, and I got my man left straight, my tig out of town. Tell everybody I did a good job. I'm helping your mama. So I think, yeah, I think listen to these longer form conversations, read um articles that really touched on the issues, and I and you know, I'm probably guilty of this a lot, but I don't, you know, I think having larger, broad, idealistic conversations is important and okay, because we are in a spot where it's time to have some of those conversations, and I think people are hungry for it, you know. I mean, I think that that's why this podcast is very popular, is because people are hungry for long form they want they want something more, you know, yeah, they do once that makes them think. Um, let's talk about lame Duck for a little bit, because I think, you know, I don't know how many people really understand what's really at stake in this lame duck. Um so food like you got this wounded duck on the water, so for we're trying to we're trying to make t shirts at every turn. So lame duck, for those who don't know about it, lame duck is after the time after the election, before the next Congress starts. So wrath of the election until like the first week of December. UM, I would say, like, what's at steak. One of the biggest things at stake is like the Land and Water Conservation Fund And you know it's sunset September three this year, UM. And and so now you're in this kind of limbo land. And and I think you know, there was some momentum Mr Bishop and the House was able to uh hold a hearing and then openly get a vote out of his committee. And so that was a huge movement, even slowly just out of the committee. That's that would been a stumbling block for a long time. So that happened. That happened too late, but at least it happened. UM. The Senate has been um working on a bill that's with Murkowski and with Cantwell, Republican Democrat that could hardly see eyed eye, and many things put on this issue there together. And that's that word compromise. UM. And so I think we've got an opportunity. And you know where I think it's going to end up, uh, is that we'll get permittent real authorizations. We don't have to go to these three year extensions and like be worrying about that piece there is talk about potentially doing some kind of full funding for the next three or four years um, and so at least we get that and then we can talk about you know where that funding comes from later. So I'm excited about that, like I really am. Um. I think that it has a chance to happen in the lane duck, like absolutely, absolutely. I think the pressure is there, and I think, you know, we're gonna we have a big push coming starting that Monday after Thanksgiving that we're gonna be contacting all of our members and engaging them and you know, making phone calls during that period and being like get it done as important because what potentially can happen is that it's punted. It's like Democrats don't want Republicans gonna win. Republicans like um, I want to stall some because they don't like the program, right, And all of a sudden we don't get anything during lane duck, and then we're covered up in the next Congress US with a bunch of other stuff that doesn't get the first and it just gets kicked down the road. And I think that's a bad thing for LBC. Yeah, Like in the LWCF, like I was always trying to like line up the opposition to it, because it seems, you know, there's always gonna be up just to everything. But do you feel that the opposition to it is appropriation? It's not that it should exist, it's like how we spend the money. M I think that's part of it. I think there's just some people fundamentally that don't like public land, and so they don't want any new acquisitions, and so they're totally against new acquisitions. And I think their appropriation is just their excuse to stop for now. It's hard to it's hard to argue against lane or conservation. It is um. I think you know the piece that they want. I mean, if this is permiere authorized and then it becomes dedicated funding, which means it doesn't have to go through the appropriations process, then you got to find a pay for us that's dollars, got to find a pay for So that is a problem, I mean not, it's not one that you can't solve, right, And that's why people are out in DC are smart and then go find that money. Um, and it's basically already you know it's there. Um. But that is a hang um, you know, I think. But I think when It fundamentally comes down to when you start hearing about oh that we want this to go through the appropriations process and so we you know, can make sure you know where this money is going for and like how it's used. It got the red harring. To me, that's just that's that's an excuse that they're using. I see that a little bit of Like that seems like just a way to say like, hey, I don't know about this thing, let's look into it further, catch it down the road or national monument things like yeah, let's do a review. Yeah, but like we really know where you just kick it down. Yeah that's good. Um, So yeah, I think that there's an opportunity there. Um, there's talking about an animous public Lands Bill, which basically omnimous means it's a bunch of different bills to come together. Um, which that's super exciting. Uh, you know San Juan's Wilderness and Colorado would hopefully be um on the docket there. We've got some stuff in Oregon, We've got some stuff in Washington. So there's like an opportunity to bring a bunch of like bills together that deal with public lands. Now, as we've talked about the word compromise, and it's always like, what's the what's the worry on this? Like it's actly because if they're gonna, you know, if everybody's gonna get together and say we can pass this bill where the things that get taken on to that that we don't like, now the two things that we probably don't like. Um, I mean sagere house is going to be a big one. Um. And so I think you know we're we're definitely nervous. And when I talk about safe house, it's like the stopping of implementing the conservation plans that are already been decided and it's like no funding to those plans and I basically stopping them from going forward. Happing with the governorship there, I don't wyoming, Uh what did happen in the governorship? Google it? Oh there's too many of them. I never didn't track that. Don't live in that state. I mean the Republican one. Um. I'd have to get back here on that one. About that one. See you stop me? That's good though, I'm not gonna not gonna it's now it's gonna bug me. It's gonna not that that. You can't stop me. Another t shirt. Yeah, I like this, We're gonna make lots of funny. So I think, uh, you know, worried about that, And then I think, um, uh, we're worried about like clean water stuff too. Um. So, like when you pass bills like that and it comes down to compromises like can you swallow some of the poison pills? And those are the ones we see right now. We couldn't swallow either one of them, and so that would be really hard to say if we don't want that to move forward. Um, but you know there's lame duck will happen. There's also you know we're coming up. The way all that stuff is gonna move would be in a budget bill, which is like I think, um that like that sunsets like that. First we get December and that's why that's like a huge target date. And so what will probably happen is we'll get another continuing resolution, which isn't bad, especially from land water Conservation phone, because it basically puts money in there that was in there before at the same level. Um. So I'm gas SIMOPLI is getting continuing resolution, but if not, like that's where this stuff can happen. And like the pressure especially ONCFF it's there, Yeah, is there any other I know, the farm bill is kind of in a similar situation that could be that could be within that budget process as well. You know, it's like private land stuff, so it's not totally in our wheelhouse, but it is a great conservation program or the at least there's the conservation tattle is like a major important piece of the farm bill. Um, so that could definitely move within that budget you know kind of process as well. But um, you know, we'll see. Yeah, do you guys track to c w D very much? A little bit? A little little bit. I mean I think that um, you know, that's where at the state level, and so like our chapter up in Wisconsin in particular, is really paying attention to what's going on. Um, it's obviously becoming more of an issue here in Montana. Um. You know, I think I'd love to think try to think about it like a federal national solution, but I think it's gonna have to be state by state. It's gonna have to be. That's another good thing to say about pH And Now we had a previous podcast had John Galeen and and really if you want to get just like a real kind of dry, bare bones breakdown of what the organization is. Listen to that podcast for sure. Well it's one good thing to let's really talk about with you, um, is that there's the state level influence, uh and the state level of work that's being done on behalf of b J by some some people I've met that are just kick ass volunteers. Just the tribe that's there. It is. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. It's our power. It's uh, you know, like I always say, we punched way above our weight. And there's two reasons. First one is that we got a hell of a media shop like Kei and Kayla is I think one of the best relationships and getting our you know, she can um, she can provide a megaphone. But then the second piece of that is like all these people on the ground man that like you know, the reason that they can punch above their ways because they're going to these meetings, you know, late at night, they're driving you know, hours and be at these things like their their dedication cannot be questioned. And and the larger we grow, the more of those kind of folks that were attracting and so that it helps us influence things at a state level, and so, um, you know, whether that's like you know Oregon where there was a the Elliott State Force, it was on the chopping block, you know, was in the state force. It was going to be sold. Like I mean, people like freaked out about that, and people on the ground and a lot of our leaders amongst other partners went to the state landboard and said no. And at first they were gonna be three nothing you know, for it, and now they were three nothing against it. And then now that that state force is gonna be there for perpetuity, same things happened down a Walming, you know. And I think that that's again I think once you empower people to it's such a such a cool thing because then it's like this, uh then they're talking to people about how excited they are and you can feel it. And so you have these people that are dedicated and they are getting their own little kind of armies around them. And so as as you know, these pockets built up, the success at the state level is definitely a place for us to concentrate. Yeah, I mean, I think it is the broader political conversation to get more tiresome like you. I'm sure you draw energy from those interactions, absolutely, absolutely, you know, and I think you know, there's a reason why Congress is slow moving is because I'm glacial. Is because if things go fast out there, it might not be you know, like you have this huge pendulum that swings back and forth, you know, and if you have stuff that takes time, usually that's we all thought out and all angles have been looked at, and then hopefully it stands at test of time. Um. But it's frustrating, it's you know, more than frustrating sometimes. But at a state level, I think you can influence things pretty quickly and the majority of time, like those things are going really well, and people, you know, people care about their backyard more than they do about DC, right, and while DC decisions affect them in a major way in their backyard, when you have things that they can work on at a local level that they can affect that that it's empowering to them to where they think now they can go do something out in d C. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen that n B H and and really other groups. You know, there's there's many examples, but it's just it's always been striked to me that. I mean there's a Texas chapter B h A and the place that I was going to Austin and like the week after things Giving, we're going, we're having a story telling that down there and fills them. Yea, if I was still living there, I'd be there. Uh, they're blowing up. They have two percent public land, and those guys are absolutely like like once about excuses other states, Get your ship together. Texas is killing it, killing it. If yeah, if you're over there and like you're in Michigan and you're like, ah, we just don't we don't know what to do with public lands, get it together, Get it together, because Texas is throwing parties at the Filson store. They're crushing it. And it's like it's about individuals. You know. We have a staff or k De Lorenzo that covers our whole Southwest. She is absolutely fantastic, but she covers five states. Like it is the volunteers on the ground right now that are driving that process. And like when I sometimes you know, when I hear feedback, you know, our chapter is not growing very well, and like you know, like we're like, what are you doing? Yeah, well, we have not really anything. I'm like, that's why, like you know, and like you have to go out and do things. And those folks down Texas, the men and women down in Texas are absolutely doers and they're crushing it. And I would say that's like Jason Mike Brandon, guys are down there killing it. But yeah, and I think that's just an example of the value systems we're talking about. Men Like these guys live in a in a place where I lived in here and it's not good like living now in Montana. You wake up in the morning, You're like, it's a different feeling. Yeah, it's a real different feeling. I do my drive over here today. Yeah, Like there were so many places that I just wanted to pull off the road and just go explore for a little bit with this dog, you know, and like and go see if I could go jump on a duck or something. But like all that, but I drove by not all, but a lot of it was public land. Yeah, And like how cool is that that I at any moment, I could have been like, oh, I'm just gonna pull over and like get out of there. So, um, you are living in a different place. But I also think that those folks down Texas. I'm looking forward to going down and talking to them more. But I've had conversations with them and they almost value it more than I do. You know, like this is second nature to me. I just drove by all this stuff today. I'm not you know, likecent of Montana's public. Yeah, they only have supercents of that stuff down there. It is really important. And then these opportunities here where they can go explore are absolutely important. Well, that's it, and that's what you know. I grew up in the East Coast, I lived in Texas, and now I live here. It's it's not that, you know, it's like this exclusive Western privilege. It's all of our privilege about and those dudes in the Texas chapter, I'm sure in the Pennsylvania chapter getting their trucks, I know they do. And these I know they do it because I see them. They get in their trucks, they put a cooler in there, they put all their gear and they fucking drive to Colorado and they shooting elk and then they flip around drive back. They're one of the craziest things that I think I've witnesses over in Colorado. And they have such a weird seasons like that, like those three seasons. Yeah. Um. But like dudes driving around with like freezers in the back of their trucks, you know, and then you look at the license plate and it's like Florida, Texas, you know, and so like they're shooting out. They have a generat in the back of the car, you know, and I put on that and they have these freezers. And the dude, I've seen multiple freezers and like free like a trailer baltiple freezes. That's that's ah, that's dedication. I wonder what if that stuff jinxes you though, right, like if you come up with like the big that's presumptive. That's what I'm saying. Oh, you guys, you're gonna kill them all. You brought a whole do you need that? Right? Yeah? Now, that but that's you know, that just shows that I'm very aware of like they're being. I know, there's this like little uh internet thing now where people call other hunters like West East all the West. He's love working out and going out the mounds. I'm from North Carolina, FU the West. He's like, no, shut up, like this is not this is I've lived around and and from I identify as the East Coaster and this ship is awesome. Well I would, I would say that. But then also when I think about North Carolina, they got a national force there at one point one million acres, They've got all that mars that's out there, Like you can get after it and find these pieces of back country anywhere you are, you know, And it's just about if that's the kind of way thing that you want to do, and if you don't want to do that, that's totally fine. But you can find it everywhere in Maryland where there isn't a whole lot of it. But I grew up right by green Ridge State Forest and and there's a I grew up on there like that was just a place you could go and how lucky, how lucky. Um. And I think that's it's not for everybody to remember. And like I said, it's easy. It's easy to say that. It's easy to be a part of something that's trending. It's super easy. And I think you got it great, like you got lucky man. You have have champion an idea that ought to be easy for people to get onto. Um. And when I hope they when you say you that's like collective vhs. You know, it's like this, this tribe, this revolution and this like these people each and every day like are the ones that are um, they're heating the call and they found like you find and then I found in this like this finally some shared ideology that is infallible, like public lands are infallible. Come at me and try to try to give me one reason why they need to be taken away. And I'm I'm pretty sure for the rest of my days and for you know, I'll teach my son this, and you're teaching your kids this like there this is don't tread on this ship like don't and I'm not, you know, I'm willing. I'm an open minded person, but boy, this is pretty close to concrete. So I don't know if you've heard this one before, but um, my friend Corey Fisher from Trial Limited Quinness, it's like like our public lands are a second second Amendment, you like, do not touch that. I like that, you know, that's like I think that's kind of what you're saying, Like this is like a land this hand issue. You know, I'm like, for me, I'm pretty lucky. That's the thing that I get to do for a living. But that's the thing that you know, I care most about after my family and you know, well we talk a lot about tribe and a lot about you know, like our people. Like you say that a lot, I find I say that a lot too. I say it, yeah, in a lot of the same ways as you say it. But like I have very much committed my career and like a lot of my thoughts too. Our people, hunters, anglers, people that like go outside, like you know, you have to and that's to be like, that's it's pretty am good way to live life. Well, and I think you know, I'm learning every day too, you know, and whether that's outdoors, you know. The young dog that's been she's now licking. Uh, she's she's hungry and that's why she's growling. She doesn't get rainery at all except when it's dinner time. Um, me too. But like the things that I'm getting to do and explore with her and just learn, you know, about myself and learn about the places that we're hunting. Um is awesome. The things that I'm learning from other people you know, all across this country that are members of ours, Like, like that is cool. Besides like all kind of sharing that same ethos. You know, I'm like, um, the same kind of global view is it's like just learning like about these different places all over the country that you know that make this country so cool. You know. I will say, like if you need any education on what b h A is, there's this little thing called the rendezvous. And if you're wondering if this is for you and you're like public lands, I don't know, and you're wondering if if these are your people too, I would suggest, did you go to Boise? What's the dates? May one through four? May one through four, bring your bring your drinking pants, bring here. There's a little bit of that I always bring me up because I like to take But if you don't have to worry about leaving those at home, but you don't, you'll be hydrated in one way or the other and come and see that thing. Um. I can honestly say that I have has been my job for the last eleven years to go to these things. And then the last couple of years I've realized, like something you you know, I've been searching for in the hunting community is there at that event, like a shared energy that just is I don't know how how you say it. Oh, then it's cool, man, It's this is fun. You know. If it was just it was just like the traditional rendezvous where people came from all across the country, you know, and just sat around like and like swap stories and like and like had a big bonfire. Like that would be like just that would be flat out amazing, right, and like that's really what this event is. And then you add into that like the Wild Game cook Off and the Public Land's Film Fest and the storytelling that you know, like all these other things, the skills and like the seminars. You know, I'm like, like all that even makes it even better. But just that piece that you first described with like people coming from all across the country and then be like, oh man, I didn't know there was other people that thought like I did. Yeah, And I'll tell you, like, you know, I'm sure Remy that wouldn't mind that I say this. But I remember last year I had to leave early and go to a family event and then talking to Remy Warren on like Monday or something, and he was the one who first kind of articulated like I just did, dude. I was like I was how's how's the weekend? Man? How'd it go? Man? I've been looking for that for my whole freaking life. Ye know, I've been looking for this kind of gathering for my whole life. Man. It is awesome. And the fact that guys that love that guy like I do, can just go around and he's there hanging out all the better. And that's the thing is that there's you know, there's no pretension of b h A. You know, there's no like hierarchy of structure that's like oh you can't, um, you can't be a part of this event or you know, like that's this group over there, nobody can. Like we did the thing with Ryan Busty, our chair John Gil like all of our directors right sort of like six of us up on stage, ask us any question that you want to ask us, you know, and so like, you know, the level of acumen of our members, like the questions they were asking pretty damp high, which was really cool for me to see. You're like shuffle in your index cards like hold on, that's a car forty six. Hold on. But like that, I think that session I had a lot of good feedback from that is that, like you know, weird open book, you know, and like and again there's besides no hierarchy. It's like like this is your organization, you know, and like have conversations with us about like what you want to see or what you don't want to see and um, and we can move forward and you know with all you know, I think you know as we grow, you know, this event, you know, seven five people the year before that, last year it was this year, repay reaching fifteen to seventeen. Like it's maintained that intimacy, maintaining kind of like that open field that everybody matters. And you know, there's gonna be people there have scraped every single penny that they can just to get there to the event, and there's gonna be people there that have an opportunity, you know, to spend ten dollars on something, right, but all of them together they share the same ethos and I feel like a family and don't feel like there's a separation of the haves and the have nots or like the West East first, the East East and we're gonna use those like nour the West Side story also, but uh like that to me, I think is the juice and it's it's kind of hard to describe un this year there, you know, like like like you say, like the energy, but it's it's palpable. Man. Like I I freaked out when I got on stage at that storytelling because I just like the energy in that room, Like I just couldn't handle it. And I just have like this like I was jumping all around like a crazy freaking people I had like my I had my uh Howard Dean moment, remember that stream and like that was my moment. I was like jumping off like crazy like all the stage. Um. But it was because the energy was so rad you know, like the conversations that I had, you know, from people all cross the country. That map they had everybody put a pin, you know, kind of where they came from. We had every single state covered, you know, and I think all but two Canadian provinces. Like that to me is it's pretty dark cool gosh. Man. Yeah, At some level, it's that's what that's what I'm after. At some some strange level, like I like to hunt alone, boy, I'd like to have a community around it. It's just it's an awesome thing to go to do. Of course, it's fun. It's fun. Man one through four. Tickets will go on sale Get to Boys any day now, but it will sell out. So if you're thinking about coming, make sure that you get a ticket early. I would, Yeah, I'll be there and it's affordable. I mean last year it was a hundred and seventing fire for the whole weekend. That's like meals and drinks. When you go there and you do everything, you're you're done after a couple of you are ready to go back to wherever you came from. That was intense. It is. It's like it's packed and you can't take breaks. I mean, Boys is an amazing place. You know. I got the Boise River run through town. It's so uh, it's such an intense weekend. Maybe we just have like a Sunday, like just get like a sevent d bean bag chairs. I'd like to see that him right, and everybody's like everybody's just like drinking water. Like. Yeah, they tried to do like Archer shoot last year. They did do it Archer Shot last year. The chapter Ido chapter did not very well. Attendant. Yeah, people are just wearing slippers and their bathroom. It's pretty intense, but it's a lot. I mean when we say intense. It's it's so it's fun. It's like it's like that fm O like fair missing out, Like you don't want to miss any event because it's so awesome, you know. So you run yourself rag a little bit, bouncing from one thing to another. So take Baby, Take Back in turnally to Missoula the bean bag chair idea, I'm gonna I'm gonna go and pitch that the frank if people still sitting bean bag chairs, Oh yeah, I think. I mean, I think college kids. I think that's I'm old. My daughter wants one right now. I'm like, you're that's good. I'm feeling like this comes back to the very beginning of the podcast. It's like the it's like like this is one place where you're cool, like thinking about bean bags they're in. Then I was thinking in the editorial space that we have in our new office, I wanted to hang those beads up you know that you folks used to have them like in between rooms, yeah, rather than a door. Yeah, because I'd like to see if somebody coming and be like hey, hey, hey, like have to do this to talk to me or talk to somebody in the editorial department. It's not going over well yet. I haven't. I mean, I'm trying to build like a kind of a style like bean bag chairs bla blah blah blah. Oh yeah la babysitter to I got home there to day and she goes like, me and your kids look at the lava lamp for like twenty minutes. Awesome, Like since we're watch TV and stuff like, that's their electronic that they're watching, is this lava lamp. And it was so intriguing. That was twenty minutes of that twenty minutes of just staring at the LA and that's not like, yeah, other people that are starting at those. Once we actually build the Mediator podcast studio, we may have to incorporate Lava La Lava La. Yeah, I'll be back, dude, that'd be sweet anyway. Feel free to to steal those ideas, right, I'll go back to Frankie be like, Okay, we're gonna have a lava lamp lounge with lava. I feel like that'd be cool, all right, Land, Thank you for doing what you do hanging out man. I always appreciate you, Ben Uh, thank you for being on the board. Thank you for this opportunity on the podcast man like, yeah, I mean it's the polly pulpit that you got, and I appreciate what you're doing. I appreciate the time that you have for us today. Well, we're gonna keep doing it. It's cool, all right, thank you. That's it. That's all Episode number thirty six in the books. Thank you very much to Lantauni for coming to Bosan and hanging out in the mediator offices and talking shop. I really appreciate it as always. And so if you're unfamiliar with b H, hopefully now you know what they're all about, what they do for our community, and check them out and get informed, and if you want to become a member, please do. I am um and I believe in their mission and I would say that openly always. UM and I believe in public plans, and I believe in value that they bring to all of us. And uh, I'll probably be a broken record for that as long as this podcasts exists. So I hope you're on board. If not, let's talk it through. Uh. Really, I hope that you listen last week to Morrigan Mason Well, our associator here at Meeting Incorporated, for episode number thirty five. If you missed it, go back listen to Morgan. It was a great podcast. Next Tuesday, episode number thirty seven, I'm gonna be joined by our very own Jannie tell Us, and we're gonna be looking into the ethical quandaries of our audience. So we asked on Instagram for folks at beny o B three oh one to give us some ethical quandaries. We've got a bunch of good ones, so Yanni and I are gonna sit down and tackle those for episode number thirty seven, So be sure to stay tune next Tuesday morning, and until then, go to the mediator dot com, go to the listen tab, hit Up, Hunting Collective, hit Up Anchored, hit Up, Wired, hunt hit Up the Media podcast of course with one Steve and Ronnella. And then go to the page and sign up for our newsletter to get weekly updates on all of our count into your email inbox. It'll be awesome, I promise. All right. Until next time, I'm We'll see you from Bosman. Want bite m h m hm