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Seattle, WA- Steven Rinella talks with the writer Jon Mooallem, along with Ryan Callaghan, and Janis Putelis of the MeatEater crew.

Subjects discussed: Anchorage and salmon floating around Steve’s head; looking at people, looking at animals; animals making it into the stuffy realm; the rising of the hedgehog’s brand; how kids react to the brutality of nature; William T. Hornaday, buffalo, and what enlightenment looks like; claims to moral legitimacy; Ice Age hunters; species level thinking; and more.

-Related Links and Notes-

Wild Ones: A Sometimes Dismaying, Weirdly Reassuring Story About Looking at People Looking at Animals in America by Jon Mooallem

Pedals the Bear- By walking on two legs, he made us rethink the divide between human and animal by Jon Mooallem

The Road by Cormac McCarthy