Steven Rinella talks with Rue Mapp and Janis Putelis.

Topics discussed: A solid two-syllable, navigational name; when your cowboy dad hangs pigs in your garage and you don't want kids on the school bus to see; how parades mean different things to different people; Outdoor Afro re-connecting black Americans to the outdoors; upping your nature swagger; unpacking statistics; how black children drown at five times the rate of white children in the US; Harriet Tubman as a wilderness leader; losing sight of the sociological factors that have lead people to be where they are; the great migration; how the outdoors and nature has not always been regarded as a safe place for black people; Emmet Till; how being on the other side of too much intrigue just isn't welcome; in cases of racism, rarely do you ever get the proof and rarely do you need it; gauging the age of an airplane by whether or not its bathroom has an ashtray; how looking at communities as needing to be saved isn’t the right way to go; picnicing vs. birding and tailgating as day camp; and more.

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